Very basic Skagit line Question - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Very basic Skagit line Question

Forgive this most basic question, but there are few spey casters in Maine to ask even basic info from.
I just received a Meiser switch rod S2H106910-5; 10'6", rated as 9/10 wt, and/or 500 to 650 grains.
At the price of skagit lines and cheaters, I would like to know which you'd recommend so I can get the right one first off --
8/9 Rio Skagit Spey Body (550 grains) and a set of cheaters, or the 9/10 (650 grains) and a set of cheaters?
Where do you find the weight of the cheaters? Don't you add the weight of the cheaters to the weight of the skagit spey body head for a total head weight that fits within that called out by Bob for this rod?
Or are there other lines you would suggest for this rod, or even in addition to these/this line for the spare spool?
I'm hoping to use this for stripers on the Kennebec and in the surf on the coast casting fairly large/heavy flies.
All help is much appreciated.
Joe
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 11:42 AM
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using a 10 ft 6 in rod you should not need a cheeter. usually the cheeters are used for longer rods to help maintain the 3 to 3.5 times suggestion (Skagit line to rod length.) as for which line It is gonna come down to personal preference both the 550 and the 650 should work I would imagine. however I have not cast that rod so I am not gonna be much help on line and tip selection. sorry
Rambo
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 12:38 PM
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suggestions

Give Bob Meiser a call on this. Being a board sponsor, and all around nice guy, his number is listed. Advise is free for the price of a phone call. I think when he lists the grain window on his rods, he is also including tip weight. I could be wrong, so ask.

If you are planning on (sink) tips for this rod, I would suggest poly leaders, Airflow custom cuts, or DIY sections of T-8 or T-14.

Red Shed Fly Shop, another board sponsor, has a try program. Mike can send you either or both lines to try. Keep the one you like. Return the other.

Oh, BTW, you are talking of Skagit Spey style of casting, aren't you? Not overhead? These lines would put a seroius overload on that rod if you tried to overhead cast them. For overhead casting, as well as Spey, Dave Anderson (Grampa Spey) likes Rio Outbounds. A search for Outbound should turn up some info. Dave also has a few Meiser sticks. Maybe even the same as yours. And he fishes Stripers.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-31-2006, 12:51 PM
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Call Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJones
Give Bob Meiser a call on this. Being a board sponsor, and all around nice guy, his number is listed. Advise is free for the price of a phone call. I think when he lists the grain window on his rods, he is also including tip weight. I could be wrong, so ask.
Yes forget about cheaters. When you call Bob, MAKE SURE you tell him about your specific intended use. That rod supports an amazing range of possible angling methods, but it should be lined quite differently for each. When you get it lined properly for the application, your giggle factor will be high--guaranteed!

Bert
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-01-2006, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks

Thanks for the replies. I do have a call and email in to Bob, but I think he is "on vacation" for a while, so I was fishing for a quick answer in the meantime. Thanks for the suggestion of the lines availability too; I had forgotten about that. And, yes I am using this for spey casts -- my old fart body can't handle overhead casts much anymore, and there is no backcast room in the area of the Kennebec I plan on using this rod on most.
Joe
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 09:30 AM
 
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Bob on vacation

@Joe
I tried to contact Bob Meiser the last few days. You wrote he is "on vacation"? Sure?

I've you have any informations about Bob, please let me know.

best regards

Pascal
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 11:08 AM
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Gunner/Joe re lines for Meisers 9/10 Switch rod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
Forgive this most basic question, but there are few spey casters in Maine to ask even basic info from.
I just received a Meiser switch rod S2H106910-5; 10'6", rated as 9/10 wt, and/or 500 to 650 grains.
At the price of skagit lines and cheaters, I would like to know which you'd recommend so I can get the right one first off --
8/9 Rio Skagit Spey Body (550 grains) and a set of cheaters, or the 9/10 (650 grains) and a set of cheaters?
Where do you find the weight of the cheaters? Don't you add the weight of the cheaters to the weight of the skagit spey body head for a total head weight that fits within that called out by Bob for this rod?
Or are there other lines you would suggest for this rod, or even in addition to these/this line for the spare spool?
I'm hoping to use this for stripers on the Kennebec and in the surf on the coast casting fairly large/heavy flies.
All help is much appreciated.Joe

I own Meise's 9/10 Switch rod, and it is my Striper Boat rod. Casting from my boat or my son's, my favorite line is the Rio Striper Line with the 350 grain/26' built in head. I, also, have the Rio Versi Tip Striper line with the various changeable heads for fishing various water depths in my local river. Both lines work very well. The line with the built in tip is the easiest to strip and cast.

I haven't used a Skagit line with the 9/10. The 5/6 switch rod works great with the Rio OB WF 10 Floater 425 grain head, and the 7/8 switch rod hums with the Rio Skagit 450. Your 9/10 should work well with the Rio Skagit 650 for surf casting or regular Skagit casting on a river. Try a floating tip if your want to cast a surface or sub surface fly. This should work very well with overhead casts.

You do not need cheaters with a Switch rod. I have found that Rio's sinking 12' Salmon leaders from intemediate to a type 8 work the best with the Switch rods and other shorter rods with a Spey line or an OB. The type 8 in this package casts easier than T14 as its tip has a smaller diameter.

The heaviest grain weight current OB floating lines will probably not load your 9/10. Rio needs to come out with some heavier grain OB WF Floating lines.

Sean and Juro should be able to really help you re lines, sinking tips and whatever. If you live near Juro, give him a call and pay for a lesson. He probably has more lines than most fly shops. That way he can help you match your rod with a line for East Coast Striper surf fishing.

You have a great rod and it is a heavy duty fish landing tool.

Dave
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 02:03 PM
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Hi Guys,

Gunner <> Back in the shop now <> The extra tip is in the mail to you for the 10'6".

...Sorry for the delay <> But what I decided to do was to make the other tip for your rod with a bit more authority.

You ordered the 5 pc "Traditional", and this rod inherently has a bit more tip action then the 4 pc 10'6" rods.

This will give her a little more top end power for your two handed overhead work, and the butt end has plenty of reserve to allow this transfer.

The two tips will compliment each other well for both your anchor point and overhead work.

We did discuss lines quite a bit for this rod at the Spey-O-Rama, but I realize that sometimes all of this information can be a bit of an overload, especially when trying to develop casting technique with a new rod all at the same time.

To review lines for your specific Striper Fishing <>

Using anchor point delivers in moving water <> Rivers and Tidal:

You and I cast that rod at the Spey-O-Rama loaded with the Rio Windcutter 9/10/11 body only and the floating tip from same.

We also used the 450 Skagit (no cheater), with the type 6 sink tip from the same 9/10/11 WC.

As you saw; these combinations did work very well, and should meet your moving water fishing conditions nicely as you described them to me.

For two handed overhead work: We used a grain matched River Extra floating line, and although she easily threw the entire line no worries, I do not think that this line would best meet your described fishing conditions.

I choose to use this line simply to demostrate the rods' two handed overhead delivery capabilities.

For two handed overhead work in slack tide or stillwater: I'd suggest a grain matched (555 grains) Rio Outbound in the most appropriate sink rate to best meet your fishing conditions.

I'd suggest the Outbound with an intermediate sink running line, with either an intermediate sink, and fast sink head.

If I were to suggest only ONE off the shelf line to best meet your moving and still hydraulics <> Utilizing both anchor point and two handed overhead deliveries:

I'd suggest the Rio Wincutter 9/10/11 tip line....Using the body only, and any of the tips from this kit. You may want to shorten the tips to 12'.

This line set up will be very easy to develop your casting fundamentals with this rod, yet (most importantly) should fish very well in your described scenairo.

I'd further suggest that you initially use only the floating tip to perfect your various deliveries, as until you learn the fundamentals <> Tips can complicate the issue, and can create frustration with anchor point release.

Best anchor point (spey) delivery technique for your 106 rod:

Use the floating WC combinatin first to perfect delivery fundamentals.

Avoid predominate high hand power at all times with this rod.

Rather: At the shot <> Use an even two handed push, with a crisp underhand power pop into the brisket.

Stop the rod tip high and crisp (at the treeline).

Keep all of your line management very compact and minimal, avoid big open sweeping motion with such a short rod....It's not necessary, and will steal power from the rod.

When you venture to sink tips in moving water:

... As with any rod, you must minimize anchor at the both the dangle and the "D".

With a shorter rod like the 10'6" you will need to reach high to extend the lift at the dangle.

SLOWY release sunk line from the dangle to a minimal anchor, then change direction.....Sometimes you may even have to throw a two handed roll cast at the sunk dangle Scando style to aide in the anchor release, then lift.

At the "D" <> With this short rod, a high reach touch-and-go anchor may prove to be best for you, or utilize a secondary parry poke to reposition to a frontal anchor if confined by riparian.

Only very basic casts are required to learn the rod, and the WC mentioned will perform all of these easily to aide in your learning curve.

You'll later find that many more specialized lines will work extremely well on your switch rod...

... But this is the line that I'd suggest you use to become familiar with, and gain confidence <> And in the interim will also fish very well.

It may be best to develop good basic fundamentals first with one functional line marriage <> Then later pursue that "Magic Bullet" if you wish.

Meiz

Bob Meiser...R.B. Meiser Fly rods
www.meiserflyrods.com
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 02:13 PM
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P.S.

Pascal ... I sent you an E-mail just now.

Meiz

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2006, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Bob

Bob, thanks for the detailed reply. You did give me a lot of valuable info at the Spey-O-Rama but my tired old brain didn't manage to remember it all; should have written some of it down. NOw you have, so thanks -- I'll print out this thread and have it for reference.
Joe
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2006, 05:16 PM
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Rio Skagit 650 works very well with my older Meiser 9/10 3 piece Switch Rod

I just got back from my local river.

Thanks to Bob Pauli's new article thread on the Skagits. I bypassed the 550 and used my 650 Skagit with Meise's 9/10 10'6" 3 piece rod. The 650 worked very well with my 9/10 Switch Rod.

I used a 15` Rio 9 weight floating tip with a 15' steelhead leader plus a couple of feet of tippet with a good sized gurgler fly. Using Mike McCune's Skagit cast with the Orvis Holster/stripping basket, It was easy to cast the head plus the 15' floating tip and the 15' leader and shoot 20 to 30' of the green running line.

Next I used Rio's 12' intermediate sinking line with a Striper Deceiver and had similiar results with Mike's Skagit and Edgit's Perry Poke Skagit casts.

I didn't use any of the Rio 12' type 8 or 6 sinking leaders due to the inability to wade. Again basically no room for a back cast.

The ease of use of the Rio Skagit 650 with Bob's 9/10 Switch rod parallels the ease of use of Bob's 7/8 Switch rod with the Skagit 450 and his 5/6 Switch Rod with the Rio OB WF 10 Floater.

I'm a great fan of Bob's Switch rods, but with standard spey lines, I couldn't make a decent cast with any of my Switch rods. With the Skagit lines and OB lines these become very easy and efficient rods to Skagit Cast with. They are excellent rods with overhand casting and all types of nymphing. Now I have another way to use these great tools.

Speaking of great tools for two handed casters, my new Orvis Line Holster or striping basket is excellent for shooting line and just holding it to move or change flies.

Dave
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