Big difference between Skagit and Scando heads? - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Big difference between Skagit and Scando heads?

so I'm looking at the Scando heads as well as the Skagit heads, and I'm not sure of what the big difference is between them. The tapers (from the Rio product line) are different, but overall weight and length appears to be the same (unless I'm missing something!). Is there a significantly different way they cast, or can one do a faster style cast with a Skagit head and vice versa?

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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-27-2006, 10:24 PM
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The differences are many and large.

Before answering, what is your prior Spey casting experience?

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pauli
The differences are many and large.

Before answering, what is your prior Spey casting experience?
Learning... Been out 3 times and can do a switch cast with some consistency and the occasional double spey.

I've read quite a bit though, so technical terms don't scare me
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-05-2006, 03:05 AM
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!!!!!!!

Kingjamb:
A Scandinavian head is a fly line head, tied to a running line, purchased separately, that is usually cast by a very fast rod. The Scandinavian head is is typically shorter than a Spey line, has no significant sink tip, and is generally not asked to throw huge flies.

Skagit lines are Spey lines on steroids. The heads are short, stocky, heavy and eat the steroids sink tips and large intruder flies with morning tea!!!!!

Skagit lines cast effortlessly, often expending energy equal to that required to cast a single-hand 5 weight 40 feet, belying the fact that the delivery package is a 650 grains Skagit head plus a 300-grain 24-foot tip.

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Last edited by Bob Pauli; 02-05-2006 at 06:43 AM.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pauli
Kingjamb:
A Scandinavian head is a fly line head, tied to a running line, purchased separately, that is usually cast by a very fast rod. The Scandinavian head is is typically shorter than a Spey line, has no significant sink tip, and is generally not asked to throw huge flies.

Skagit lines are Spey lines on steroids. The heads are short, stocky, heavy and eat the steroids sink tips and large intruder flies with morning tea!!!!!

Skagit lines cast effortlessly, often expending energy equal to that required to cast a single-hand 5 weight 40 feet, belying the fact that the delivery package is a 650 grains Skagit head plus a 300-grain 24-foot tip.
So in the immortal words of Sir Issac Newton, mass has priviledge

Bob, thanks for the info though! I forgot to look at the grain payload of each of the lines and only looked at taper construction and head length. After reading your post and verifying the info on the line manufacturer websites, it's starting to make more sense
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 08:52 PM
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Actually

Skagit lines will cast big flies tis true.

Remember that the energy of the cast is defined by the formaula F=MA. In the Skagit line cast the MASS component is increased to create more FORCE. This requires the use of a rod which can handle the additional MASS. This is a good system and we have been using them in the Pacific Northwest for years with much success. In Scandinavia the thinking was to increase the A part of the equation by creating rods with faster recovery(fast action) and using lines which are short and in most cases lighter than lines we might use on a rod of that line designation. The result are rods with 'rifle shot' recovery that throw laser beam loops with no physical effort on the part of the caster.

As a person who has cast Long Bellies with tips, Skagit lines, and now Scandinavian Underhand systems I have always fished very big flies. The problem with big flies is not payload. A really big fly still only weighs a gram or two which is nothing compared to the energy of the cast you are making. The problem with big flies is turnover. Conventional sink tips are made with braided cores and this type of tip does not turn over big stuff at all. Tips with solid cores like T-14 and Airflo tips and Scandinavian Poly leaders have great turnover. I can fish 2 gram prawn flies on my Scandinavian 6/7 and they turn over very well.

The moral of the story is both systems are very well suited to Winter fishing with big flies. It just depends what you want your rod action to feel like and how hard you physically want to work at it.

Also, beware the companies that have recently added Scandi systems to their product lines because they are popular. True Scandinavian gear has been developed by guys who are out fishing it every day. Companies like Guideline, SCIERRA, and Loop make Underhand lines that rock. When comparing one system to another make sure you have a good example of each system for the compariason.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 10:43 PM
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speyman,
Can you expand a little more on the construction of conventional versus other types of materials used in the sinktips? What is the solid core made of in a scando polyleader? Do the solid cores have more mass and thus turnover big flies more successfully? Thanks.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-07-2006, 12:19 AM
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Cores

The cors are made of Mono, just like leader tippet. The turnover is the result of the characteristics of stiffness rather than the mass. Poly leaders are 9' long and only weight 40 or 50 grains and yet they turn over big tubes like 140 grain sink tips do.

I learned this the hard way one day on the Sauk. I had been fishing T14 out on the OP with monster prawn flies and no problemo. Of course no water I fish on the Sauk can be fished with T14 so I put on my type 3. I could not turn over a prawn to save my life. Then I went back to the T14 and voila! Next day I pulled out the Airflo mono core tips of the same length and weight as the Rio braided core tips. The big prawn flew beautifully. Since that day I only use mono core tips or poly leaders.

On the side I also believe full sinkers swing much better than floaters with tips, just my opinion.

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