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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-14-2005, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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basic questions


I'm a newbie.. I've been doing extensive research on the subject of spey casting and am wondering how the FFF regulates who can apply to their workshops to become a certified double handed casting instructor?

On a global scale does it actually amount to anything or is it just a north american certification?

Are there authentic casting instructors being brought in from Scotland?

I've noticed there are discrepancies in what actually IS real spey casting. Why is this? I get the idea that often certified instructors don't really know what they are talking about (from mag articles, online research) I for one would assume you'd have to know the history of 'spey' fishing to really know what it is.

It's so confusing as a beginner knowing the proper language, authentic technique and true definition. I suppose I'm anal that way in needing to know traditional knowledge rather than someone's paraphrased idea of what it might be.
Is there anyone in canada who knows the true history, technique and definition? If so how much would instruction cost?
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
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Well.. it seems to many North American "spey" casters, "Spey" has absolutely nothing to do with "Spey Casting"

Sad really. You can't take a name from a different country and try to apply it to something that doesn't deserve it.

Why is it so difficult for people here to give proper credit where credit is due and not try to glorify ones self with certifications that in fact, don't really certifiy real spey casting.

I came to Spey pages hoping to find authentic spey cast techniques but it seems I've found a mish mash of americanisms.

Is there anyone in Canada that are true Spey casters?
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 01:21 AM
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Message deleted no reason to give a troll fuel for the fire..

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Last edited by roballen; 11-15-2005 at 12:20 PM.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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I have absolute respect for mike maxwell. He is quoted as being a purist, who did not agree with american dilution. As well Aaron Riemer he insisted, "If I have a legacy to leave to fly fishing, I hope it would be to get it right. The right cast, the right rod, the right fly, and the right presentation."

I guess I am seeking to be taught by a purist. A fly fisher person in my opinion is one who follows the art and technique as it was originally created.

To get it right.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 02:26 AM
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Stop with the 'purist' or 'right way' to cast. There isn't. Spend just a 'bit more time' in the learning phase before you end up all knotted up over nothing.

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 02:42 AM
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Deleted My Original Post,

per a member's request.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 05:08 AM
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How much actual speycasting, let alone flycasting have you actually done? While there is a lot to be learned from the internet, some things should actually be practiced or done physically to be understood. To be a student of speycasting/fishing is akin to embarking on the martial arts path. You no sooner become adept at one style or techinique, when another presents itself for your perusal, learning, and mastery. Many that have been speycasting/fishing for years still consider themselves students as there is always something new to be learned, debated, or debunked.

People here are adept at many techniques and styles and willingly share their knowledge and expertise. It takes some deep wading at times, but eventually it begins to make sense. Others are at various stages of their spey/doublehanded journey, all are welcome. The wonderful thing about this quest is finding the style or technique as well as the rod and line that suits you----and there are many. This is what claves are for, I believe the next one in your area will be Kaufmann's Spey Days--usually held in February. Another option would be to join Aaron and the boys at Carnation (every Saturday from 9 - noon) for free guidance along your spey path. Closer to home contact M&Y, Whistler Flyfishing or Angler's West for those in the know.

At this point you are making judgements based on somewhat limited knowledge gained from reading the internet. If you really want to learn, keep monitoring this website, invest in lessons---it will shorten the learning curve, and practice, practice, and then practice some more.

Please stick around, enjoy the journey, ask your questions(politely or at least diplomatically), and good luck with what can truly be a wonderful obsession.


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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 08:31 AM
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The learning curve from 'trolling' to Spey casting is quite steep.

IMHO these are times of discovery and one would do well to learn with an open mind as a student of the art and decide which styles suit you as your skills warrant. The greatest casters I know never stop learning.

Personally, I agree that the traditional elements of Spey casting are the most fascinating and are the basis for all Spey casting but modern evolutions in Scandinavia and North America happen for very good reasons, in the end it's about substance not style and also translates into catching fish. To that end the newer techniques are quite deadly and part of the complete arsenal for effective angling.

If you are only interested in learning only traditional casting techniques, just let your instructor (Scottish or North American) know that is your interest and I am sure he/she would gladly accomodate.


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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 09:09 AM
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speycasting style

Hey prettyfly,
I have no idea where you live, but i'm coming over to fish around BC in March with a couple of buddy's ,so a good chance for you to see different types of casting, the traditional ,history thing is my thing, well it has to be,fishing working and living 5 mins from the Spey .
So if you want a traditional speycasting, and a history lesson when i'm over in BC the lesson would cost a .................................................. ..a beer, not a half beer, i know you are all tight with the money over the pond.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Prettyfly
I guess I am seeking to be taught by a purist. A fly fisher person in my opinion is one who follows the art and technique as it was originally created.

To get it right.
As it was originally created?

Flyfishing was "created" for many hundreds years ago. The first flyfishers probably didn't cast very much, they just put the fly in the water. Flyfishing techniques had a great improvement in the nineteenth century. The same improvement is going on today.
As for speycasting it originated in the River Spey over hundred years ago. But nobody is casting the way today as day did then (except for pure nostalgi). Hundred years ago they didn't shoot line and they was fishing with rods made by wood (greenhart for instance) and lines made by silk. Back then there where also many different approaces to the speycast. Alexander Grant was for instance known to have a very special style. His special tapered speylines has been very important for the development of todays spey lines. But except from Grant himself, not many used this lines then. Most people used level silklines and then later double tapered silk lines.

There is plenty of people here that knows the history of speycasting much better than I do. But I don't think anyone could give you an exact answer for the only way to do a proper speycast, either traditional or modern.
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 03:12 PM
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Speycasting style

Hi McIntyre,
Just a couple of points on your reply to this thread, you say that nobody is casting the way they did 100yrs ago, not true,you also say the did'nt shoot line again not true.
Alexander Grant did'nt like the way Speycasting was done then, which is the same as we cast today , he did'nt like the style ,line or rods used then so set about designing his own rod, line and cast.
But they were Speycasting long before him, and casting as we do now on the Spey, in fact they were debating which hand to use for the forward stroke, upper hand or lower ,sounds alot like underhand casting to me, 100yrs ago.
Distance competitions where held, multi-tips where used at different times of the year.
The only difference in speycasting traditional style in 100yrs is the materials used, i do notice there has been alot of different casts invented in the last 5yr to 10yrs.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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I haven't been restricting my research to just the internet. I have taken great liberty in searching the Vancouver library, North Van, West Van and all of this past year's BC Outdoor issues to garner information.

The internet tho puts me close at hand to a variety of fisher persons. I am particularly interested in the battle that ensues amongst flyfishers. I read a thread in a washington forum and that is where I picked up the term "Purest" and how many "meat and worm" fishermen would rather bastardize the art and make it about 'how many fish are caught' rather than true technique. That is not from someone coming new to the scene, that is from seasoned fishermen.

It is by no means, something I've just stumbled upon. Trolling is a technique I'd rather not use as there is no creativity involved

That said, I am about the creativity and the responses and deleted responses I've gotten have certainly proven something to me. There is fear in the minds of those who do not know fact. I am entitled to want to learn how to do it properly am I not? I fully intend on making speyfishing an active part of my future..... for the long term. And apparently I'm not going to get what I want locally.

I'm sorry if I've come off as offensive. I get obsessive when I'm introduced to something I really enjoy and in my obsessiveness I research thoroughly. I don't care to catch more fish, I can do that with much easier methods. I want to learn the art, be graceful in my attempts. I guess I should have mentioned that I am a woman.. I can go shopping for 12 hours and come home with 1 thing but the time spent searching for that one perfect thing is worth more than finding 100 things I'll probably wear only once... it makes perfect logic to me.

A history lesson for the cost of a beer?? I'm all for that. March huh... I guess I'll just keep searching the net, reading Spey casting books and perfecting my single handed cast until then.

Last edited by Prettyfly; 11-15-2005 at 04:40 PM.
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 04:49 PM
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Come to Carnation any Sat. morning and you can learn more about casting the two handed rod then all the time you have spent in the library and on the internet. Talk to Aaron and a host of others versed in fishing with the two handed rod. You will never meet a finer group and receive more valuable help anywhere. It is only a couple hours drive.

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 05:07 PM
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Come to Scotland, I'll teach you on the Spey.

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-15-2005, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Indeed I intend on getting to Scotland

The best place to learn would be the place where legends are made. IMO

I hear it's cold dark and wet over there right now.. Perhaps I'll wait until the weather lets up.

Oh I forgot to add. Wasn't there a Spey Clave in Carnation in Sept or Oct? I had wanted to go, but was otherwise occupied - ended up taking a day cruz to the Thompson.

What do you do on Saturdays? I was thinking of heading to Bellingham soon, how far is it from there?
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