These sintips are killing me! - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-10-2005, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
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Question These sinktips are killing me!

I'm pretty new on the two hander and I'm swinging a 9140 with a Delt Multi tip. I'm getting fairly decent and consistent on my floating line but when I switch over to sinktips for mid day summer steel and practice purposes for the coming winter runs it all stops and it's like I'm starting all over . I've studied enough books, videos, and posts here to know that minor adjustments need to be made (found in my case ) and lots of practice must be had, but I was wondering what general tips you kind people could give for working with my sinktips?
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-10-2005, 09:34 PM
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What weight line are you fishing on the 9140?
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 12:03 AM
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I am new to spey casting too. I am using a Skagit shooting line system and I can make reasonable casts that are very fishable. It would help to know what kind of sink line system you are working with
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 12:50 AM
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Hi DoubleL!

Fighting with sinktips is common for new casters (I know: I've been there and remember it well!). If you could answer a few questions for me I might be able to help as much as one can over the internet:

1. which casts are you using with sinktips?
2. which of the Delta tips are you using (the lighter ones or the heavier ones)?
3. how much line are you trying to cast with the tips?



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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 06:48 AM
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Get rid of the sunk tips........buy a intermediate and slow sinker instead.
LIFT the line then rool it back downstream then start the cast.
When speycasting control of the last 20 ft of line is important, if 5 of these float and 15 sink control is very difficult.
Avoid short cuts and do the job properly.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 12:24 PM
 
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Driving Sink Tips

Many of the guys on this site are amazingly knowledgable and experienced. I recommend following Dana's reply, answer his questions and I'd be surprized, if things didn't get better. I'm way off my knowledge base here, but am aware of two Sage rods in the 14' length area and I know one has a very soft tip which in my opinion makes driving tips more of a challenge. Two non-instructor recommendations are to get the anchor as close to your body as possible w/o incurring physical harm from the fly and don't dally. The farther that tips sinks into the water, the more energy it will take to send it on it's way. Good luck.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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more info

Thanks for the quick replies everyone. The line weight is 9/10 and I am able to effectively cast the floating and clear intermediate tip. Its the type 3 and type 7 that I have struggled with the most. I don't shoot much line yet so I'm usually casting the length of the head, sinktip, and leader--roughly 60 feet. The sinktips are giving me problems on all of my casts and I just can't seem to properly get the tip out of the water on the dangle. Are multiple roll casts normal?
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 08:46 PM
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While we are all different, I'd bet if you went down a line size you will find more success. I went down 2 sizes to the 7/8 Delta and that rod/line combo became one of my all time favorites.
Check out Simon's lines recs on the Rio site.

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How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 11:09 PM
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I have hardly any Spey experience to speak of, however, I know what you're dealing with.

I think the key with tips is the correct lift. By that I mean you lift enough line and tip off of the water before you begin to form the loop.

(Credit: It was Mike K. that gave me this tip.)

-- Brent
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-11-2005, 11:13 PM
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sounds like you aren't getting the tip to the surface before the cast. 2 tips:

1) Strip the fly and tip to the surface before the lift. If you shoot a few feet of line on the forward cast, then you can strip a few feet of line back in after the swing, immediately before starting into the lift. This bring the tips to the surface, where it is easier to move them

2) Start the lift slowly, and don't apply power until the tip is about the exit the water. When lifting sinktips, especially with softer rods, be very cognizant of the moment immediately before the tips exit the water. That's when you want to begin applying power and start your casting stroke. If you apply power too soon, right away when starting the lift, all you do is put a deep bend in the rod. Lift with a slow start, begin to apply casting power right when the tip is about to exit the water.

I hope these 2 tips help. good luck!

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 04:26 PM
 
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Get Um Up

You're OK w/ a dry line and evidently a type 7 gives you no more trouble than a type 3. I think SSpey is on the mark. Some stripping should start the tip up, then the slow lifing motion to start, ( hopefully that gets it up to the surface ). Forgive me in advance, if this is too obvious or elementary, but I hope / assume that you start w/ your rod tip pointing downstream toward your tip and not across the river. If not, a good portion of your casting stroke has already been burned. Not being able to see the forest through the trees happens all too often to me.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-15-2005, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up gotta love Speypages

Quote:
Originally Posted by hisgarness
Forgive me in advance, if this is too obvious or elementary, but I hope / assume that you start w/ your rod tip pointing downstream toward your tip and not across the river. If not, a good portion of your casting stroke has already been burned. Not being able to see the forest through the trees happens all too often to me.
I do indeed start with my rod tip downstream, but I don't mind the elementary question at all. Its the basics I'm still working on. All of the tips are good and greatly appreciated. I know it may be boorish answering what is such a basic problem for many of you. It's a little intimidating to even ask a question that I know is fairly basic but I'm currently stuck and needed some feedback to work on. In fact it will applied tomorrow on the Deschutes.

It sounds like stripping in some line will assit in part of my problem so shooting more line will need to improve as well. Thanks again!
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-16-2005, 01:57 AM
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a few more thoughts

pulling sinktips out of the water is not an easy task. It takes a while to get it all to work consistently. Here are a few things to consider:

1. start with the type 3 tip and stay with it until you are comfortable pulling it out of the water. Then move on the the heavier tip, applying what you've learned with the lighter one.

2. always begin any cast with your rod tip right down on the water, or no more than an inch or two above it. I f you have an elevated rod tip you have slack that you must first overcome in order to move the sinktip.

3. to start the cast, pull in 3 - 5 strips of line.

4. slowly lift the rod tip up to your firing position for a roll cast, paying close attention to your rod tip. You'll need to have a constant bend in the rod tip. If the tip straightens, you've lost line tension and will have trouble making your best roll cast.

5. roll cast the tip up to the surface.

6. once the tip is up, move in to your casting cycle.

When you become more experienced you will eventually be able to take a heavy, deeply sunken tip and cast it without the roll cast by using line tension and effective rod loading. Once you are able to make your casts using the above method (or something like it) and you are able to shoot 20+ft of line into every cast you will be ready to learn to move a tip without the roll cast approach. Meantime let us know if any of our suggestions have been helpful!



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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-17-2005, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Gunn
Get rid of the sunk tips........buy a intermediate and slow sinker instead.
LIFT the line then rool it back downstream then start the cast.
When speycasting control of the last 20 ft of line is important, if 5 of these float and 15 sink control is very difficult.
Avoid short cuts and do the job properly.
Short of single hand rods with full/intermed sinkers I had zero experience in using these types of lines ... until Malcolm brought me over two from Scotland. God what a difference!! Willie's dead on on the casting action (well, that's how he taught me ); I even use a WF7 full sink on my 12-6 6wt TFO.

Only place they're a pain to cast (as is probably covered above) is when the end of the swing puts the line down into 'frog water.' Here I've got to lift/roll a couple of times to get the line into moving water. Another lift/roll and out you go.

As an aside, WG can wing these things out (full sinker included) as far as I can run a full floater.



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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-27-2005, 06:56 PM
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As an scandinavian style caster who are experimenting with the longer lines, I'm able to see the advantage a longer line could give on surface fishing. But for sinking fishing I can't see why a long line (15 yds+ head) should have any advantages over a 12-13 yds full sinking head with a shooting line attached. All the mending is possible to do before the line meets the surface and with good planning of your cast it would not be necessary with any more mending, except maybe mending the shooting line. Such a short shootinghead is very easy to get to the surface with a roll cast and you could go directly in to a single spey or snakeroll. A mediocre caster will easy cast 30 yds with this system.
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