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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 09:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Greased line?

Ummm... Sorry another newbie question...

What's a greased line rod?

I'm guessing it's refering to rods made to cast floating lines. (IIRC old fly lines required "grease" to make them float.) Why not just call them "floating" line rods so you don't confuse newbies like me? Or is that the point?
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 11:06 AM
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As Tevia said in Fiddler On the Roof -

Tradition. I believe the term came from the time of silk lines, when they had to be greased to keep them floating. Also, to me at least, there is the implication of swinging the flly around broadside to the fish. I am not sure where the term first originated, but it has been in use for some time.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldmountain
Ummm... Sorry another newbie question...

What's a greased line rod?

I'm guessing it's refering to rods made to cast floating lines. (IIRC old fly lines required "grease" to make them float.) Why not just call them "floating" line rods so you don't confuse newbies like me? Or is that the point?
It's called marketing. The maker is just giving you a hint as to what they designed the rod for. If they are honest it means the rod is more suited to long casts, hopefully with long floating lines and reasonable sized flies for the line weight designation, than it is to heavy sinktips and intrudinator type flies, though if it is a good rod (and what isn't these days?) it should be able to handle some of the dirty work.

I wonder what the loomis dredger is for

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 05:15 PM
 
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greased fly line

Greased fly line is a silk fly line and the only way to make it float was to grease it, These lines were mainly 40 yard, and you could grease 90% and let the tip sink, grease all and it floats, take all the grease off and it becomes a full sunk line, clever Eh!
The anglers of 100 years ago had it all figured out, one line, one reel.
Clan at the moment is playing with new silk lines, made in France to our spec, why, because we want to know why a man called Alexander Grant did a single speycast of 56 yards 100 years ago, check out www.clanrods .com and read the facts.
We are also building the greenheart rods that the man used to such great affect.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 05:37 PM
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The term "greased line" was popularized (at least here in North America - I don't want to offend Willie Gunn's historic sensibilities) by Jock Scott's account of AHE Wood's method of fishing for Atlantic salmon with light low-water flies and a floating (greased) line. The book was published here by Frank Amato and I got my copy back in the 70's.

It is an effective method and the book itself is worth a read.

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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 06:15 PM
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Kush, when did you worry about offending me? Turned over a new leaf?

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 06:58 PM
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Man, I didn't want you picking on me the way you went after Ed and his Skagit line

Besides, it is much more fun to offend you in person I have decided to save it up 'til we next meet

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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-03-2005, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry jamieson
Greased fly line is a silk fly line and the only way to make it float was to grease it, These lines were mainly 40 yard, and you could grease 90% and let the tip sink, grease all and it floats, take all the grease off and it becomes a full sunk line, clever Eh!
The anglers of 100 years ago had it all figured out, one line, one reel.
I fished and read about fishing a LOT as a kid. Now that I've had a bit more time to dredge up old memories I do remember that a they needed to grease line to get them to float in the old days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry jamieson
Clan at the moment is playing with new silk lines, made in France to our spec, why, because we want to know why a man called Alexander Grant did a single speycast of 56 yards 100 years ago, check out www.clanrods .com and read the facts.
We are also building the greenheart rods that the man used to such great affect.
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I had a look at your site. I can see that you take rods and rodbuilding very seriously.

I read about how they tapered lines from 12 to 4 over 50 yards. What measure is that? I assume it is standard modern line designations. This also seems to be the way modern line manufacturers are making their two handed rod lines. As an engineer this makes sense. (Keep in mind I have NO line design experience what so ever. I just like to think too much.) You keep the heavy part of the line close to the rod so that it will load it as much as possible. Then taper it so that it will unroll easier and not have so much wind resistance near the end.

I can also see why silk lines are better. Modern plastic lines are not nearly as supple as a silk line so you will expend some energy unrolling the line which will shorten your cast. I would also guess that a silk line will be thinner at the same line weight as a modern plastic line. This means the modern line will be less wind resistand than a silk line. On the other hand taking care of a silk line is a pain and a silk line is VERY expensive so I'll stick to a modern plastic line.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2005, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kush
The term "greased line" was popularized (at least here in North America - I don't want to offend Willie Gunn's historic sensibilities) by Jock Scott's account of AHE Wood's method of fishing for Atlantic salmon with light low-water flies and a floating (greased) line. The book was published here by Frank Amato and I got my copy back in the 70's.

It is an effective method and the book itself is worth a read.
The book has been re-published and is available at Amato Publishing.

After reading both the book and the marketing language by some of the rod makers, I suspect the original definition has been blurred.

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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 06-04-2005, 03:39 AM
 
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"Greased line". And I suspect that there are those who have "greased up" modern intermediate lines to get them to float to a certain degree? I have a preparation made by a UK company that is made specifically for lines.

In the context of modern marketing, "greased line" is possibly linked to either of the two extreme length heads on the market, which were influenced by the interest in Alexander Grant and his technique of not shooting line. (For distances over a certain limit one has to shoot running line with both of these lines, and over here in Norway it is not always the case that those striving for distance with these lines cast in the most energy-saving and graceful manner. I recently saw a guy casting with one who almost jumped out of his shoes on each cast!

Anyway, and Harry should be able to comment on this, Grant's technique was not used with "greased lines." As I understand it,this rather modest man was off the scene before Wood's time and the introduction of "greased line" techniques. Grant used to oil his lines with linseed oil, which I suspect does not lead to the same degree of buoyancy? He used oiled lines on fast rivers with small, double hooked flies in the main, and usually with the minimum change of angle although the technique could be used to cast across.

I would love to try one of these newer lines: we tried switch casting a 40 yard (36m) DTsilk line on two modern graphite rods recently; one being a 15' rated #10 and the other 15'6" #11. Both rods lifted this partly sunken line - no roll casts and not in a fast river - with between 20-23 meters outside the rod tip.(22-25 yds) + leader 15' and length of line down to reel )14'?

On the cost side, surely silk-line properly maintained will last several times longer than a modern line? However, this new design will surely have its limitations if one accepts Jock Scott's comments on switching techniques, rod and line design: the rods must have oscillating (folding rings) to prevent the heavier line from falling back?

Regards

Steven
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-17-2005, 07:10 AM
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Sylk line

Hi Steven,
One of the lines i was using was i think around 76 yrs old, cant see any of my plastic lines lasting that, when i think about it cant see me lasting that, it still flies through the air and lands perfect, been working on the cast, getting there, it's now just down to me getting out of my bad habits.
Gordon.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 10:53 AM
 
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Greased Line Fishing

The / this history is enlightening. My understanding or use of the term greased line fishing is "local" and has always meant dry line fishing w/o a dry or waking fly. As in; dry fly fishing, ( floating line w/ a dry or waking fly ) - - - greased line fishing , ( floating line with a wet, spey like or sparsely dressed fly ) - - - or sunk fly fishing, ( w/ a sinking tip or line ). I had not made the connection between the origin of applying grease or some other form of floatant to a line and the floating lines of today and I have the Jock Scott book. Sometimes slow, but willing to learn.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 01:26 PM
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Talking Have to keep newbies a little off balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by baldmountain
Ummm... What's a greased line rod?

I'm guessing it's refering to rods made to cast floating lines. (IIRC old fly lines required "grease" to make them float.) Why not just call them "floating" line rods so you don't confuse newbies like me? Or is that the point?
Yes,,,that is exactly the point. It's more fun that way.

I remember years ago trying to figure out the what & whys of flies like a "Quill Gordon" "Adams" and "Light Cahill"
Still trying to figure out whether a "Willie Gunn" was originated by Malcolm,,,or is it tied to imitate (look like) him?

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJones
Yes,,,that is exactly the point. It's more fun that way.

Still trying to figure out whether a "Willie Gunn" was originated by Malcolm,,,or is it tied to imitate (look like) him?
Neither

The Willie Gunn Story

Willie Gunn gave his name to one of the most successful patterns of Scottish salmon fly ever devised, the fame of which has spread throughout the world.

The pattern was designed to imitate a hair-wing version of a fully dressed Thunder & Lightning and the originator of the pattern was an RAF officer, Flight Lieutenant “Dusty” Miller, who was based at Kinloss in Morayshire.

Miller dressed salmon flies for Rob Wilson, of Brora. The two men were anxious to rationalise the large number of hair-wing patterns then (the late 1940s) beginning to appear in an ever-increasing range of shapes and sizes.

Miller produced 25 patterns that he sent to Rob for approval. Rob was examining the flies in his shop one morning when Willie Gunn called to buy a few flies for a day’s sport on the River Brora.

“By gum,” Willie said to Wilson, pointing to one of the flies, “that looks bonny. If I had a choice, that’s the one I would use.” “Well,” said Rob, “you must have it and we will name the fly the Willie Gunn.”

During the course of his day’s fishing Willie caught six salmon on the fly and on the following day a further four. News of the “miracle” fly spread throughout the north and within a short space of time the fly had established itself as a principal weapon in the salmon angler’s armoury.

Willie Gunn was born in the township of Skerray on the wild north coast of Sutherland where his father was a crofter and fisherman. He started work with the Forestry Commission in the Borgie Forest in 1929.

After trying his hand at farming, which he did not like, Willie found employment as a keeper, gillie and stalker with the Sutherland Estates where he spent the rest of his working life.

It was whilst Willie was based at Loch Choire, on the south side of Ben Klibreck, that he caught his first salmon. The fish was taken from the River Mallart, a tributary of the River Naver, and it weighed 161b. The largest fish he landed was a magnificent specimen of 281b that he caught in the Bengie Pool of the Brora.

Willie’s salmon fishing technique was based upon precision. He never fished out a bad cast. If the first cast was wrong, he immediately corrected it and began again. He was always more concerned about covering known salmon lies effectively rather than following the ethos of the “chuck-it-and-chance it” brigade.

Willie was a good friend and companion: reserved, gentle, courteous and kindly. Generations of salmon anglers began their career under his careful guidance and he was one of the most respected members of the small Highland community in which he lived.

This is illustrated by a story told by Rob Wilson. Wilson had been given a day on the Brora and when he arrived he noticed Gunn sitting by the stream, apparently without a rod. Wilson fished the pool and then wandered over to speak to his friend. “Aye, Willie, grand day.”

Willie replied politely and then mentioned that Wilson had been fishing the wrong bank; he should have been fishing the south bank, the north bank being reserved that day for Gunn’s own use. On many Highland rivers, to fish someone else’s water, inadvertently or not, is nothing short of a hanging offence.

Mortified, Rob asked Willie why he had not stopped him, before he had started to fish down Gunn’s pool: “That would never do,” replied Willie, “I did not want to spoil your enjoyment.” The matter was never mentioned again.

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 02:23 PM
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Thanks for the history lesson

All kidding aside, I expected as such. It would be the same as if I had chosen a moniker of a fly from one of our own. Crazy Charlie pehaps?

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
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