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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-17-2004, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Question More Beginner Questions

Thank you for all the help with my last question. This may be the only spey school that I can attend, because there are none close to here. First question, what does a two line designation on a spey rod mean? Seconed question, if I tape my rod do I use electrical or masking tape? In the Derek Brown video it looks like he is using masking tape. Again thanks for any help.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-18-2004, 03:30 AM
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Use electrical tape, not masking tape.

The 2 line designations mean that if you are an average to good caster, use a line that has both numbers in it (i.e. an 8/9 rod would use an 8/9/10 RIO Windcutter, an 8/9 RIO MidSpey, an 8/9 Delata Spey, and 8/9 Long Delta Spey). If a person is a powerful caster that really winds up and loads the rod, he would use a line that begins one size lower than the 2 on the rod (i.e. on the same 8/9 rod, he would use a 7/8/9 Windcutter, a 7/8 MidSpey, a 7/8 Delta Spey, or 7/8 Long Delta Spey).

Since you are new to spey casting, you should use a line that has both rod numbers in it (i.e. for an 8/9 rod, you should use the 8/9/10 Windcutter, 8/9 MidSpey, etc.) if it is a moderately stiff (think medium-action) rod.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 04:12 PM
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line weight

I was interested in what has been said about the Rio Windcutter
Lines. I am also a beginner and I'm wondering if I have the correct line? I bought a B&W 13' Powerlite with a rating of 8-10 DT. I have been sold a Windcutter WF9/10/11F. I have been wondering if it's too heavy....any thoughts?

Cheers.

Ray
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 04:38 PM
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Hey Hairofthedog...

For the rod you list, looking on Simon's line chart he recommends the 8/9/10 WC for the newer caster or a person that likes to feel more rod load.
I have great faith in Simon's chart and think it is a very good place for the new caster to start looking when trying to decide which line. If you are interested in another brand you can always cross reference the info.

Simon and Rio deserve a BIG thank you from spey casters everywhere for suppling this info. Take care, MJC


http://www.rioproducts.com/pages/speyrecs.asp
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2004, 05:07 PM
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Hairofthedog,

Your 9/10/11 is probaly a tad heavy. I would remove the midsection(tip 2) and try it. With tip 2 out you will have a 35' shooting head that will probaly load the rod great and shoot a ton of line.

Kevin
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 04:43 AM
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removable sections

Thanks BigK1, but my line does not have any removable sections.

I think I'll need to buy a new line.

Ray
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 10:50 AM
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Put in loops

Ray, it is easy to put in loops in your line, then you have more options. According to RIO specs tiip one and tip two are both 15 feet long. So you would cut your line at 15 feet and at thirty feet and place two loops at each cut ( I use braided loops). Join them and you have the original line. Remove tip one and two and put on a sink tip and you are ready for deeper fishing. With tip two removed, you have a Skagit style head.

Ted
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 01:32 PM
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line weight

Thanks again to everyone for responding.

Today I decided to get in touch direct with B&W. They have replied by telling me that the Rio Windcutter I mentioned is entirely unsuitable for the 13' Powerlite. The reason they state is that they feel the Rio WF line is for a faster rod with a tip action and that my rod has more of a through action. They advised a #10 DT. Fortunately I have one

Ray
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 02:31 PM
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Don't give up on 9/10/11 WC

Especially if you fish some tight quarters. The 9/10/11 with tip two removed makes a nice line for Skagit style casting.

Ted
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 02:36 PM
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Hairofthedog,

I would have to disagree with what they told you.
Windcutters work very well on slow rods (Sage 9140). I would cut your floater at 40' back from the tip and try it you will like it.

Kevin
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 05:50 PM
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Frankly, what B&W told you about the RIO Windcutter only being suitable for fast, tip-action rods is pure BS. A rod of any action from stiff, powerful, fast recovery to soft, low power, slow recovery can cast a spey line of any belly length! You must make sure you are not overloading or underloading the rod is all. You now more need to use a DT 10 on your rod than a person can only use a DT 6 on a 6 wt single-hand rod.

For slower rods like the B&W you have use the 9/10/11 Windcutter as a maximum size, and keep in mind that it is going to overload the rod a bit just like it does on the Sage 9140-4. For a new caster, the 8/9/10 Windcutter is a far better choice on your B&W. For an experience caster, the 7/8/9 Windcutter would probably be best.

If you want to use a bit longer belly, the 8/9 MidSpey or Long Delta would work fine. If you want to use a long-belly line, the GS 7/8 could be cast; but it will overload the rod a bit; but you could easily use the 7/8 XLT on your rod.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 06:54 PM
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confusion

Durrrr, Whilst trying to gain clarification I find myslef even more confused because there are so many differing and strongly contrasting opinions......

I find it hard to dismiss B&W's opinion as 'BS', they surely must only have their customer's interests at heart, and surely they must know what lines are best for their own rods? They haven't tried to promote any particular make of line that would make one suspect that they have a contract with the manufacturer.

I guess that I will have to go with my own instincts here, tempered by the variety of advice I've been given.

This is all adding to my experience and is welcomed.

Ray
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 07:13 PM
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World view

makes a big difference in what we think is reasonable. If you use the search function to look at the debate between short and long line spey casting, you will see what I mean. B&W come from the double taper world view, just remember that shorter heads work too, sometimes better, as when there is a need for stripping in. The 9/10/11 is too heavy uncut. With tip two removed and a 150 graing tip installed the 9/10/11 should come in a little over 500 grains and very close to the uncut 7/8/9 WC at 525 grains. Try out your DT 10 and then modify your 9/10/11 WC and try it with tip two removed and see what works best for you.

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2004, 10:48 PM
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Like Ted pointed out, the DT 10 is the line that B&W most likely use as their target when they designed the rod, nothing wrong with that. However, this doesn't mean that a short-belly line like the Windcutter will not work "properly" on the rod.

That is why I included the 6 wt single-hand rod example. We all know that a single-hand rod that was designed to cast a DT 6 can also cast a WF line or a ST line just as well as the DT. Same with your B&W rod. Just because it was designed by B&W to cast a DT 10 doesn't mean it will not cast a short-belly, a mid-belly, or a long-belly WF spey line as well as the DT. For that matter, it would cast a spey shooting head line like the Loop Adapted, RIO Scandanavian, or SA Skagit head too, just like the single-hand 6 wt will cast WF and ST lines as well as the DT 6 it was designed to cast.

This is why I said what they told you about your rod not being able to cast a short-belly line very well was BS.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-22-2004, 03:08 AM
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here

take your DT line out and fish it,,take a felt tip marker,,then after allowing yourself some time casting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,mark the line with the marker,where it casts `sweetly',,this is YOUR windcutter,,then cut,loop the line to whatever small diameter line you'd like to tell your freinds you're using,,and go have fun,,,that's what i'd recomend,,,but,,i don't really like a WC,,haven't found a use for them,,just too short in the nonsegmented variety,,,and the `skagit style' ,,i guess that's what i'm doing with leadcore attached to the front of the line;;;it works!,,the windycutters are just short belly sections connected to small diameter running lines bye the factory to satisfy the needs of people who expect a magic power will be handed to them for mere money,,no,,GO FORTH,,SMILE,,,AND ENJOY ONESELF,,,whip what you have,,,,you'll see what the rod can handle,,,

just fishin'
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