A rule of thumb for casting distance - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-17-2004, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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A rule of thumb for casting distance

I am wondering about the differences in casting distance of a 8/9 rod in three lengths 13, 14, and 15 feet. I would think each added foot in rod length would add a few feet in the cast. My next question is have 3 14 foot rods. A 7/8, 8/9, and a 9/10. The larger line size should add a few feet to the cast. Last spring at the Sandy Clave Juro had 3 rods rigged up with a mid-spey line. I could cast the 7/8 and the 9/10 about the same and the 8/9 was about 10 feet less. Possibility the line on the 8/9 did not match the rod as well. I remember in Jim Vincent's first casting video, he mentioned a rue of thumb. For every foot deeper you wade you would loose about 5 feet in distance. Do you guys think the 5 foot rule of thumb would work in the above examples? Jerry

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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-18-2004, 12:00 AM
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Not sure about rod length but am not convinced that you necessarily will cast a heavier weight line weight farther.

In single handed casting I can cast an 8 weight as far as I can cast my 10 weight. I think there is a weight limit where added distance is not a given

Maybe in adverse conditions - with wind a heavier line might work better
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-18-2004, 03:33 AM
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Jerry,

Longer rods provide you with a mechanical advantage and thus can cast a line farther with the same effort. Heavier lines can also be cast farther than lighter lines with the same length rod.

For example, I can cast my T&T 1510 loaded with an 8/9 GrandSpey a lot farther than I can cast my Loomis GLX 13' 8/9 with an 8/9 MidSpey or 7/8 GrandSpey. The extra 2 feet of rod length and the heavier line certainly are involved in this.

Likewise, I regularly cast and fish my T&T 1611 120 feet in certain runs on the Skagit with the 9/10 GrandSpey and sink tips. Doing the same with a 14 ft 9 or 10 wt would be very difficult to achieve for the hour+ it takes to fish those runs. The extra rod length and line weight are definitely at play here too.

Why do you think most of the top rods at Musto are casting 17' to18' rods? There is no subsitute for the mechanical advantage of rod length, just like there is no subsitute for cubic inches on the drag strip.
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-18-2004, 10:48 AM
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Educate my ignorance?

I can't fish at the moment, so I'll nitpick. I'm not sure I buy the idea that a longer rod gives you a mechanical advantage over a shorter rod. I know that a rod is both lever and spring, but from the lever side of the house it seems you'd have less leverage with a long rod. Assuming same weight lines, it seems you'd need to apply more force to cast a longer rod than a short one. That said, with a long rod you'd have more tip travel. I think height off the water is nice too. Can anyone clarify for me?

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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-18-2004, 11:16 AM
 
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I would think that a longer rod could store more energy, hence less energy is needed to physically move the line itself; rather, energy given to the rod by movement would be transferred to the line. In this fashion, I could see a point to be made for longer rods.
On the other hand, I would think that the biggest factor is the graphite used in the blank and the characteristics thereof. Compare blanks of the same length made with different graphites and one is bound to out-cast the other. If that's the case, there should be a sort of inverse relationship between casting distance as it relates to rod length, with graphite and taper characteristics being an equalizer of sorts.
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-18-2004, 01:03 PM
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longer rods

Alexander Grant theorized that for every foot of rod tip off the water, you gained or lost nine feet of casting distance. Example: stand in one foot of water and swing a 13 ft rod, or stand in three feet of water and swing a 15 footer. Given the same line weight, action , conditions, etc, the same distance can be achieved.

Forget the mechanical advantage, or lack of it afforded by the different rod lengths. What matters here is line (tip) speed, stroke length, and height off the water.

The only other thing that comes into play, besides the fact that a line with more mass will keep on going longer (distance) once you get it moving, is physical ability. Some people just can't handle a 16 ft 11 wt rod.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 01:52 PM
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Falkus told me

that by getting the reel up above my ear I would effectively being casting with 16 rather than 15 feet ,It gives a bigger D loop .deep wasing cuts the size of loop you can create .

Andy W >London UK
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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Speed, Energy and Mass

I am trying to think of some examples. If you throw a small rock or a larger rock. Then try throwing a rock off a cliff. Now I can visualize how gravity enters the equation. Going a little farther on this thought. A 55 grain bullet from a .22 caliber varment rifle or a 180 grain bullet from an 06. With these thought in mind I can now understand a little more what is happening with the casting loop. I would like to see a few more rules of thumb thrown out there. Jerry

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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 03:16 PM
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Jerry,

I like the 55 grain vs. 180 grain example. I would take it one step farther and say the ballistic coeficient for that 55 gr. spitzer is much better than for the 180 gr. round nose. When you add velocity into the equation you a whole new dimension.

Have I just made a case for fast actioned rods and short bellied lines?

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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 05:43 PM
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Red face sinktip

YEP!

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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 05:53 PM
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All in good fun

OK, assuming the case I made above is accurate, how come you Skagit liners like those soft actioned noodle rods???

Just joshing you but it does bring up the question of why are the 9140-4 type rods so popular with this casting style. It would seem to me that the fast actioned rods would excel with these line setups in throwing tight bullet shaped loops.
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post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 06:06 PM
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Angry Soft Rods

I got away from softer rods.
I sold old Brownie to Wetfly.
I've been useing 8124 for years but my shoulder doesn't have it any more.
Thta's why I went to CND Skagit. (Little softer)

Brian

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post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Sink tip, Brians 9140 was gathering dust and I felt sorry for it. I could live pretty high on Brians castoffs. When he gets tired of all those cnd rods I will be waiting. Jerry

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post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 07:43 PM
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Smile CND

Wetfly

It might be a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG TIIIIMMMEEE!!!!:hehe: :hehe:

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post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old 03-19-2004, 09:50 PM
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Sinktip my friend, if you use a 180 gr spitzer boatail instead of a round nose the advantage goes to the .30 caliber. Same as using a big long-belly instead of a Skagit or Windcutter for spey distance, provided the caster knows how to toss a dynamic D loop with the long-belly.

I also wondered why the Skagit head folks don't use the fast rods like the Loomis 14' 9/10 GLX, T&T 1409, 1309, or 1410, the Loop Green Series 9140, or Meiser's fast recovery rods instead of the slow ones almost all of them use.
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