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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-25-2007, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Rods for Students

I was wondering what rods/lines the instructors are putting into the hands of new casters? (Length, line weight and type of line). I am less interested in brand identification as I am in what combos work best for new casters. And, to what extent do the the local fishing conditions influence in your rod line recommendations to new casters?

- David
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-28-2007, 08:04 AM
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david...are you teaching spey? When? Where? I am interested in a lesson!
Mark
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-28-2007, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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I am getting myself prepared to do so in the future. In the mean time, I would be glad to meet you on the Fox after the Fourth if you would like to do a little casting. The Fox is the river that I practice on.

- David
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-28-2007, 11:16 PM
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Hi David,

I really like to ask as many questions about where and how a student fishes, if they have have friends who spey cast, species, etc. Then armed with this info give them a couple options that I think best suit their needs. I try to have several styles of rods and lines with me for them to try. I find more people that want to go from "never spey cast before" to "catching fish" then I do casting geeks who want to really dig into the art of spey casting so my Skagit and Scandi rigs get a lot of the workouts. That being said it is funny how many people pick up a 16' rod and long belly thinking they just want to try it then get addicted.

I like to have a 12' 5/6, 13' 7/8, 14' 8/9 rigged w/ scandi, 13' 8 and 14 8/9 rigged with Skagit heads and a 14' with a mid belly and 15' and 16' with long bellies. i usually have a few other reels with other options say if someone wants to try a long belly on a 12 footer or something.

Hope this helps.
Greg

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-04-2007, 02:59 AM
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David

Good question and I will try to elaborate on how I came up with the rule of one.
The late Mike Maxwell in on of my many discussions with told me to start the client on balance system in other words start him on a rod and a line that you know to be correct.
The late Jimmy Green put it another way: understand your client and what he wants to do.
With this in mind I came up with one rod, one line and one cast.
By not making it a cast-a-thon using many different rods and lines.
It is good to have the client work with more than one length of line once they get the mechanics down and you get their confidence built up.
I keep the Client on a stable platform line until I have worked with him on both sides of the river and with both hands up.
Then I move to a longer belly line and by doing this we can polish the cast.
Mid and Long belly lines will show all the warts that have been building in the short belly syndrome.
If prefer to have the client us shop equipment (I highly recommend them to not purchase a outfit at this time.)

These are my rod and line recommendations.
Basic Client

I prefer to start students with rods 136 to 146 in length and 7 thru 9 in line weight.
Floating Line in length from 3.5 to 4.5 rod in length less the leader.
I use a leader of one foot per foot of rod.
Intermediate Client
The I use Same rod length but will add an 15 ft sink tip with a 3 foot leader this will allow the student to adjust his water work and his casting stroke for shorter over length of line.
Toward the end I will add a casting plug (a fly with the hook cut off) up to this time I use a piece of yarn and not yarn when working on acceleration.
Next we will go to a long belly dry line in preparation for summer run work.
Advanced Client
This is where the fun will begin. I work long belly up to 95 ft (dry, sink tip) , Skagit line, Scando and on request full sinking lines. This is the first time we will change the rod length, going down to 12 ft and up to 16 ft. ( I may add a 18 ft at some time)
In this way we build a client who can fish most anywhere.
Once the client t is at this level is when I like to talk to them about their rod and line purchases. I never hurry or pressure the client into making this decision.
Until they have tried as many rod as possible. I feel that they cannot make a good decision without knowing what available to them.

If the Client is using their rod, reel and line.
Go gently here most people feel that they are a good judge of whatever sport they are about to get into and I am not saying they are not but the proof is in the casting
Test cast their equipment and find the sweet spot.
If it is totally out of balance suggest they try one of you lines that you think will fit the rod.
This has always been an area where great patience must be exhibited. You do not want to seem to eager to change some thing or they will think that all you want to do is sell him something.
Once you get a balanced system for you client work him though the paces with the same end in mind.
Make sure that you have a back up rod and line for the long belly and sink tip work.
I hope this helps you in your quest to Mastery of the Instruction.


"Just A Trim-Tab." Buckminster Fuller

*Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth - N.Eldon Tanner.

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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 11:54 PM
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I think Aaron nailed it with this

"not making it a cast-a-thon using many different rods and lines."

for first timers keep it very simple. One rod and line determined by the instructor after asking many questions about the type of fishing and where.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the great replies.

We have some fly shops that have spey gear in the Upper Midwest Great Lake's area, but very few. I expect most of the new spey casters to either not have gear, or did what I did at first, purchase based of a friend's or on-line recommendation. I am not in the fly fishing business but I would expect to add a couple rods for students once my skills advance enough that the additions are warranted.

Another day in the nineties here. I have been doing my single-handed practice in the cool of the evening and putting in my double-handed practice 6:30 - 8:00 am in the morning, which leaves time to do everything else.

- David
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-09-2007, 02:21 AM
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David,

When I started Speyfishing it was the 70s and I lived in Alaska where no one had seen nor heard of Speycasting except for those who fished in B.C. or Northwest Washington.
I too was not in the flyfishing business but had knack for Instruction and love Speycasting. I did a lot of letter writing and made phone calls gleaning information where I could.
I added one rod every six months to my collection until I had a rod for all seasons. In doing this I had enough rods to work with students who could not afford a rod or did not know what rod to buy

You have a modern advantage lower prices on good quality Speyrods and wealth of wisdom just a click of mouse away.
So work with the end in mind of being able to help those people who want help and give information to those who needs it.
Be proactive work though each problem with the end in mind and keep the relationship with your client as your fist priory (this includes you as your own best client).
People first then equipment.

It sounds like you have your priorities right and you seen to be moving in the right direction.
Just remember I am just a click away


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*Service is the rent we pay for the privilege of living on this earth - N.Eldon Tanner.

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I have a long way to go, but I have been out several times this week practicing and I have been studying in the late evening. I have to say that more I try to learn, the more respect I have for those who have truly mastered this art form. Interestingly, I have a number of request for lessons based off of the last couple of threads alone. Our sport is growing.

Thanks again,
David
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dornblaser View Post
Interestingly, I have a number of request for lessons based off of the last couple of threads alone
The ghetto casters are available...with plenty of lines and rods....all we ask is that you pick up the tab at Founder's.....and we are thirsty and hungry when we are done.

Gary
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 10:18 AM
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"Well the world turns
And a hungry little boy with a runny nose
Plays in the street as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto...in the ghetto..."


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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
....all we ask is that you pick up the tab at Founder's.....and we are thirsty and hungry when we are done.
David, Just keep the Brinks armored car backed up to the door of Founders then you'll be able to keep Fateema shimmying around serving Devil Dancer. It will take a lot for Voodoo and his
posse

"Ode to Ghetto Casters"
By Clearwater Frank


Voodoo and his posse are down at the 6th street dam. They're sitting on the bank sucking down a dram

"Ole Jamey" is a castin and he hooks somethin lookin chrome but alsa it was a shopping cart that wasn't taken home

So they roll up and head to Founders to have a round or two and the watch the waitress jiggle as she serves that special brew

These are the "ghettocasters" and 6th street is their hood sometimes the fishing is real poor, sometimes it's very good

They don't really seem to care as long as they can meet to talk about spey flies and castin and lookin for some chrome and stopping in at Founders before they head on home

So if you are in the Great Lakes and close to the 6th street dam look for Voodoo and his posse and share with them a dram

Then go with them to Founders and buy them all a round and be sure to check out the waitress as she shimmys all around

I like these ghetto casters, I think that they are fine, I hope they come to the Clearwater so we can wet a line

I'll take them to "Poppy's Riffle" and let them go thru first, I'm sure that all that castin will work up quite a thirst so we'll head back to the Red Shed where we can share a toast to waitresses and chasing chrome, the things that we like most.

Copyright 2005, By Michael Joe Cummins

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How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJC View Post
Voodoo and his posse are down at the 6th street dam. They're sitting on the bank sucking down a dram
something like this.

Hey Poppy,
Thanks for the reposts....LOL
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJC View Post
David, Just keep the Brinks armored car backed up to the door of Founders then you'll be able to keep Fateema shimmying around serving Devil Dancer. It will take a lot for Voodoo and his
posse
Yeah, if you noticed, I did not jump on Gary' kind "offer".

- David
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 02:56 PM
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Yes, nice pic!!

Poppy=Red Shed Spey Rod Pimp
FRSCA-Founding Member


How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
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