Trunking or Flying Butt - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-10-2004, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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Trunking or Flying Butt

Other than the obvious problems, what are some of the other problems that Trunking or The Flying Butt can cause? Solved a problem that I was having and want to make sure that I am on the right track.
Thanks,
Leroy...............
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-13-2004, 05:48 PM
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Leroy,

what are the "obvious problems" you refer to? The standard one is that the Flying Butt (I like that over Trunking myself) lays too much line on the water, but it can also cause the caster to make big wide open loops due to the greatly increased casting arc, as well as causing the caster to finish the cast too high so that it travels upwards rather than outwards. What other ones have you come up with?



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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-13-2004, 06:47 PM
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Trunking can occur at the end of the sweep as the d-loop is made -or- it can be made "along the way". In other words, one case is when the lift and sweep are fine but the rod trunks in the end at the d-loop release (e.g. the rise), while the other is when the rod trunks straight out of the lift in an attempt to create a d-loop.

If the bottom kicks out at the final firing position, the d-loop falls into the water as Dana mentioned above. If the bottom is kicked out during the sweep, or in order to facilitate the motion backward (which I see often) then there is a loss of power and inadequate energy to form a proper d-loop in the first place. It's really the same problem but done at a different point in the stroke, and requires an additional different remedy.

Trunking pivots the rod about a single point between the hands instead of holding an arc in the rod until the point of energy release into the d-loop. A pivot can only put the rotating power of the rod tip into the d-loop effort, not enough to replace the sweep. When bringing the "load" backward toward the d-loop, keeping the bottom hand close to the body and in proximity of the other arm throughout the sweep ensures that the proper tension is kept in the rod blank until the d-loop can be formed.

The exception to this is underhand casting with short heads and a light anchor. Short lines are much more forgiving and can physically be set into a d-loop with just a pivot. In fact some underhand casters appear to be trunking, just before the cast rips out over the water in a tight loop.

All other lines, especially extended belly lines require a lot of attention to proper and full d-loop formation without any trunking whether in the sweep or the final firing position.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-14-2004, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Dana, The obvious are what you mentioned, to much line stick that results in a crummy cast.
Juro, Think that you covered what I was doing wrong when trying to cast a long belly line.
Have always had a problem casting a tight loop, maybe 1 in 20 some days. Always made the cast but the loops were bad. Found the problem that caused the poor loops, too much Flying but. As I think about this, the problem got worse when I started using a 16' 11 T&T and going to a long belly line.
My solution was to keep the butt still untill I formed the D loop. This has helped to tighten up my loops as I now get a better load on the rod.
Thanks for the answers, Dana And Juro.
Leroy................
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-14-2004, 01:18 PM
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Curious?

Where did the word "Trunking" orginate. I get "Flying Butt", but Trunking has been a puzzle to me. As always, just curious . Klem

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-14-2004, 03:19 PM
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good question klem.

I have heard Simon Gawesworth call it Trunking, but I don't know if he coined the term. I presume it refers to the lifting of the butt similar to an elephant lifting its trunk, but I could be really out-to-lunch on that.

Simon?



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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-14-2004, 03:25 PM
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good analysis Juro.

I think it should be mentioned of course that drifting the rod tip after the formation of the D loop during underhand casting with long belly lines can be an important aspect of distance casting with this style. To do this the bottom hand must rise along with the rod butt, which looks like trunking.

Just to confuse things a little.



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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-16-2004, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Dana, I have watched your videos and have seen what you refer to as trunking when you raise your bottom hand uppward. We both call this rod drift. While casting I sometimes use the backward, upward motion to help form the D loop and load the rod. Will invest more time in this motion so I can discuss it further.
Are you going to have a Loop Day on the water this summer? Ron and I need to do some traveling.
Leroy........................
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-17-2004, 02:01 PM
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underhand clinic

Leroy,

I wanted to do an underhand clinic this spring but with my daughter's illness, end of school year craziness and preparing for the THCI time got by me. And with family vacations, the Dean, and several private spey classes my summer is pretty full.

I still want to do this as I think it would be a lot of fun, I just need to look at a good time. Fall is steelhead time for near everyone so I'm guessing it will be later than sooner. I'll keep you posted.



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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-17-2004, 03:22 PM
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Not Trunking but "Drift/Lift"

During the drift protion of the back cast, I have been thinking/doing a "drift/lift" up to the Key position without power applied to the back stroke. Depending on how long of belly I'm casting is the relationship to how much "drift/lift" I use. Short belly hardly any "drift/lift" and extended bellies a little "drift/lift". I use to think/doing "sweep-up" under power for a continuous load but that resulted in a slight tailing loop at the very end of my cast. By thingking/doing a "drift/lift" my loop are parallel and nice yet my stop is at 10:30ish with a good positive stop. The premise is both hand move in unsion to the Key position and not just the bottom hand kicking out (trunking/flying butt). This journey with the Two-handed rod is enjoyable and very evolving. Thanks to everyone on this board my casting has improved! Klem

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-18-2004, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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"Along the way"

Juro, Good tip. I was helping a good friend who was having some trouble casting a longer line, mid spey. He would "short change himself" as I call it, by doing his lift, kick the butt out and get the rod to high to finish. Resulting in a short stroke or "short changing himself" May be another term to add to the glossary?
Leroy......................
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-22-2004, 03:01 PM
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Trunking is a term I came up with at my spey school in the 1980's. At the time there was no terminology for problem of flying bottom hand, so I had to create a term for it. I named it after an elephants trunk (Dana's is right, here) sticking up in the air, sniffing for peanuts.......... Well, you have to have some humour in instruction....... (and I was a lot younger, then!) .

Actually, come to think of it, I don't know if I tell someone in a lesson that they are trunking, just that they have a trunk, which makes more sense.

Simon
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