Join Date: Feb 2002
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|Originator: Willie Gunn||Date: 10/17/2001 8:43 PM|
I am needing some help, up to now I have been happy using factory lines, and I own a fair selection, Lee Wulff floaters/ intermediates, Michael Evens intermediates/ full sinkers. The gillie on one of the beats of the Spey that I fish uses a sink/tip that he made himself, I have tried it and it is a super line. Now that the season is coming to a close I was considering building my own sink tip line. I do not wish a Rio type with loops and hinges but a proper floating line with about 15-20 feet of sinker attached to the end.
How do I start ? Web pages ? Tools ? Materials ? Am I better using mill ends seconds? what running line is the best. Please bear in mind that I live in Scotland and lines cost £ not $ ie multiply by 1.5 approximately.
Background: I am a expericanced fly caster who can regularly thump out 90-100ft cast after cast, I can tie flies and usually attach line to backing with an old fashoined slice rather than loops.
Its up to you chaps now.
|Originator: Fred Evans||Date: 10/18/2001 4:01 AM|
Willie, a couple of thoughts. First the 'running line' should be at least two line wts larger than that of the rod designation and if you're realy looking for distance you'll need a weight forward shooting head config. when you build the line. One of the fellows at the Spey Clave had built a couple of lines like this that were just 'slick as hell.'
To join the lines he used the braded loops with the loop cut off and the head/shooting head slipped together, cryo glued, then tightly wrapped with thread. I think he then 'glossed' this with epox. to give it a stiff, smooth surface. Cast like a dream, mended well and would go out a great distance.
I've also taken a long head shooting line (like the RIO mid spey) and cut the tapered tip off and joined them as above. This also works quite well; only question is how heavy a sinking head do you want? The heavier, the more complex (I think) this could get.
|Originator: Fred Evans||Date: 10/18/2001 4:10 AM|
Willie, one other quick thought. The first line like this I put together for my "Euro" Loomis 8wt was a 50 foot section of 10wt line with the tip section cut off (but looped, sorry .. I wanted to be able to change heads), then spliced to the backing line. This, jury rigged as it may be, will cast heads up to 250-300 grains like a rocket. Over this and be prepared to "duck;" miss your timing and it will take you off your feet when it wacks you across the back of the head. (Been there and done that ... : > ****(
|Originator: West Mich||Date: 10/18/2001 5:41 PM|
Experiment with your line and sinktip by using loops and fine tuning it to the length you prefer before creating a solid splice. To join the lines use a 4-5” length of Cortland braided poly line over their meeting point. Whip each end of the braid with mono to prevent fraying. Coat the braid with Aquaseal and drive it into the braid with a hairdryer per “BlueWater Fly Fishing” by Trey Combs. I’ve created lines this way that cast nicely - they make a “zippy” sound when a fish runs the braid through the guides. Cortland makes 2 braided poly lines - the heavier version will inchworm onto the thick bodies of most flylines. Same material they make braided loops out of (you can make your own from this). This connection is a bit more flexible than an internal epoxy splice and always visible since it’s on the outside of the line. BTW - If you drive aquaseal into braided loops this way they’re a nice stiffness similar to Rio’s - just not as small. For added security you can do the braided splice over an internal epoxy splice but it's not needed.
|Originator: Nooksack Mac||Date: 10/18/2001 7:57 PM|
Although several generations removed, I'm still a Scotchman in my economic instincts, and I find that assembling inexpensive customized sinktips is one of the minor pleasures of the sport. Mill-ends and inexpensive "drugstore" lines are quite useable here, although you may have to pay more for a high-density line. Look for opportunities to swap line sections with other anglers, or split the price of a new line among two or more.
Loop connections between the tip(s) and belly give you the most economy and versatility, unless you have multiple lines and reel spools, and you know how costly that becomes. I admit, though, that when I was fishing a single-hand rod for winter steelhead, of the various lines and spools for that rod, I fished a fixed 15' fast -(not extra-fast) sinking tip about 85% of the time.
You can customize tips for optimum balance and turnover. One I use a lot (on 10/11, 11, and 12 floating bellies), is 15' consisting of 5' of size 10 medium-density spliced to 10' of size 9 extra-dense line. My splices are rough-and-ready: strip the coating from 3" of each line section; lash the cores together with, first, an open spiral of nylon or Kevlar thread; coat the area with Crazy Glue (not too much). After it's dry, add a second layer of tight, continuous thread wraps (swinging thread and fly tier's bobbin around the junction makes it go fast); coat the thread with several layers of flexible, waterproof glue, such as Pliobond rubber cement. I've never had one break.
|Originator: Willie Gunn||Date: 10/19/2001 7:37 PM|
Great help, just a couple of points. The expression is scotsmen or scotsman, scotch is the drink it is probably contained in the former, secondly not all scotsmen are mean, they just build their own lines for the plesure of making them .
On a serious note, what are we calling running line ? I meant the line between the belly and the backing. Fred you seem to suggest that it is the belly, are we having language problems ?
Is Crazy Glue, Super Glue the same but seperated by the Atlantic ?
West Mich I think you are right to suggest I use loops to get the lengths right first, good thinking.
Nooksack Mac Half the plesure of salmon fishing is owning multiple reels + lines this could be a way of increasing the number of reels I need rather than reducing them.
|Originator: Nooksack Mac||Date: 10/19/2001 9:03 PM|
Crazy Glue, Super Glue, Zap (a thin, deep-penetrating version), and probably other trade names, are all forms of Cyanocrylate, the quick-drying glue that will glue fingers together if one is not careful.
|Originator: Fred Evans||Date: 10/22/2001 12:31 AM|
Will, was just spinning down this board and saw my "gaff" on referring to the the 'belly' of the line as the 'backing.' You also caught the same.
The "head" should be at least two line sizes over the rods listed wt and the head as long as you're comfortable casting. The "head" is then attached directly to the 20-30# backing material. I've seen one fellow that spiced the head to (think I'm about right here on the number) .010 fly running line.
Haven't seen this stuff for years so suspect he had it for some other use (said he actually bought it as a spool of line, not something cut from the end of another line. Spliced these together and 'tappered' them with thrd. wraps. Cool looking and worked very well.
Anyway the general config. is sinking head to 2 sized up DT level then down to the backing/running line. In my case I took a 90 foot 10 wt DT, cut the line in half (so now I'd have two); loop on the 'blunt end' to which to attach my heads and the tappered tip is spliced to my backing material.
Simple and effective.
|Originator: loco_alto||Date: 10/22/2001 8:18 PM|
Last night I was looking through Randy Stetzer's pattern book and noticed a John Hazel tube fly named "Willie Gunn." Is there a connection and interesting story?
|Originator: Fred Evans||Date: 10/23/2001 3:37 AM|
Doc, I swear I didn't say a word to anyone!
|Originator: Willie Gunn||Date: 10/23/2001 8:22 PM|
After all this time you have all twigged that Willie Gunn is the name of a fly. I used is my "nom de plume " and no one noticed. I was forced to continue when you all so freindly chaps started calling me Willie.
Oh well it was funny for us in the know.
This is not the original dressing as the yellow should be put on first covered with orange the black over the top. This is tied in the modern way with the bucktail in bunches.
Body- Black silk ribbed in gold
Wing Yellow bucktail covered in orange bucktail with Black bucktail over the whole lot.
|Originator: Bill K||Date: 10/24/2001 6:23 PM|
I suspect a lot of people, like myself, knew that Willie Gunn was the name of a fly, but what do you call someone if you don't call them by the name they call themselves? John Hancock? Joe Blow? Malcolm Willie or Willie Malcolm? OK, Doctor it shall be.
Billy no longer The Kid
|Originator: loco_alto||Date: 10/24/2001 10:56 PM|
please continue to use your name of choice. It was not my intent to somehow suggest that you shouldn't adopt the name of a favored fly (there are, after all , lots of folks who do this - heck, I'm planing to tie up some Loco Alto flies soon...).
thanks for posting the photo. there are always so many variations on flies out there, and though I tie my own, they're usually "purple with some pink and flash" or "black skunky wth a variation" or other such non-traditional exploits. Of course, this could become another thread on "do the fish really care" or "did the second angler with a different fly really make a difference?" we all know of course that the answer is a definite maybe.
|Originator: Fred Evans||Date: 10/25/2001 5:34 AM|
Doc, I still "swear" I didn't say zip to nobody .... :>) Nom D-P's are ok; heck half the folks on the board are not using their "real names." You know too much about 'where you are' to be a "face in the crowd." 98% of us will never get to the green isle's and we realllllly want to know what's going on and you perspective of the how to. God knows, this spey casting silliness started on your side of the pond.
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