Midspey or Accelerator? - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-02-2001, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Originator: martyDate: 11/2/2001 6:52 PM
After spey casting/fishing for not quite a year now I feel like I could use some more head length than my Windcutter for my 9140-4 and St. Croix 14'. Actually the wc is a custom makeup that measures about 21' from the end of the running line to a loop which is attached to either a 29' floating tip or 15' sink tips.I consider myself definitely an average caster - mostly a single spey and some double spey.
 
I just found out from my local shop that if I get a midspey or accelerator  without tips(or any line from them I guess), Rio will put a splice in for me and I will have a line I can use my tips with, and they will charge only $5.00 for the labor.
So that answers my question of how to get my value out of my current tips. Except I don't know if they'll put in the intermediate floating line (tip 2) on these lines.
 
So my questions are: Do those of you who use the midspey feel that it is much different than the wc? 10 or so feet doesn't seem that much of a difference. I'd be looking at the 9/10.
 
If I got the Accelerator I might be looking at the 8/9, esp. if i wanted to use tips with it. The only way I would get a line with this much head is if I thought I could work up to it by casting with some head inside the rod tip and letting more out as I got better. Does that make sense and would that work? Are there those of you who got the midpsey and wished for more head length? Any line I get would be used on small and large rivers alike.
 
Thought about making up a custom line using one of Bubba's formulas.Same story: could these lines be cast with part of the head inside the rod tip? Still on the back burner. Mostly, don't want to end up with some very high priced clothes line!
 
Thanks,
Marty
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-03-2001, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Fred EvansDate: 11/2/2001 9:30 PM
Marty,
The 9140-4 is one of my main "tools of the trade." I've got the wc, mid-spey, and (last buy) the Acltr. Dropped the last dime to get the Acltr as I was so disapointed in the mid-spey I just cut the taper off and put in a splice for light heads (or the Airflo HD short sinking "leader").
 
I have a DT 10 wt floater I cut (approximatly) in half (on sale at a give a way price) and spliced loops to the 'fat ends' and find that this line for heads up to 300 grains works fine on the 9140-4 or the Loomis 8wt Euro. So what you basicly have is a 45 foot head (plus the sink tip ofcourse) tacked to backing. As the tips are usually 15 feet you've got 60 feet out of the rod tip. Want a longer head, cut the line in a different place. Very cheap seat "rio" tri-tip... but it works at a quarter of the price.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-03-2001, 05:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: J.R. SPEYDate: 11/3/2001 2:09 AM
Another option wold be to get what Rio used to call the Accelerator Upgrade, but will be called the Windcutter Upgrade for 2002. It is designed to replace the tip2 and therefore adds 15' to the Windcutter (the Upgrade is 30' and it replaces the tip2 which is 15') However, I've also tried it with the tip2 kept in place and it still works fairly well especially with a floating tip1. Adding 30' to Windcutter comes close to making an Accelerator without the power hinge. It certainly is cheaper than buying a new line. However, you have to leave room on the reel to accomodate the extra line for when you decide to add it. 
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-03-2001, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: loco_altoDate: 11/3/2001 3:10 AM
Gotta go with Fred on this one. Plain old DT lines are just dandy, often cheap, and much overlooked. Snip to a working length if backing is an issue. No reason you can't toss 70-80 feet of DT with ease on those rods. More if you want to add an Triangle Taper at the front end.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-03-2001, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: MJCDate: 11/3/2001 5:31 PM
Marty, If the line you have now works satisfactory for you and you just want more head length add some as per Dana's article under extended belly lines. http://www.flyshop.com/skills/03-99lines/
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2001, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Fred EvansDate: 11/4/2001 11:18 AM
MJ:  many thanks for the connect to Dana's article. I'd not seen this before and it clearly points out how simple 'doing your own thing' can really be.
 
Well done Dana!
fe
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2001, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: MJCDate: 11/4/2001 6:02 PM
Fred,
   Dana's article is how I became interested in 2 handers and spey casting. I wanted a multi-tip line for my single handed rod and not having a hundred plus dollars I decided to use some of my shooting heads and build a line. In the course of chopping up lines and experimenting I found Dana's article on the web and from there started learning about spey casting. My first rod was home made from a fiberglass fly rod and the bottom half of a boat rod and a spliced "skagit" style line. With a lot of advice from several people that post on this board I was finally "spey" casting in a crude sort of way. With better tackle I can now cast a little better. It would have been a lot cheaper to buy that original single hander multi-tip but not nearly as much FUN.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2001, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: J_DDate: 11/4/2001 8:34 PM
The reason the "tip no. 2" as Rio calles it , is in there is so that you can shorten the head when using sink tips. Primarly the 24 ft big boy. However, for a lot casters, when using sink tips, the shorter head is easier to work with.
 
I suspect that is also the reasoning behind your existing setup.
 
As for adding the accelerator/windcutter upgrade, that extra 15 ft comes with a heavy price tag,,weight. Rio says the 9/10/11 upgrade will make your 650 gr line an 860 gr line. My experience was more like 1000 grains with 20 ft of extra line.
 
If you dig around, (either Rio or the Spey Pages, I forget which) you can find the specs for all these lines. The accelerator 8/9=700gr, 9/10= 800gr, 10/11=1000gr. MidSpey 8/9=640, 9/10=725.
 
I have found that an SA mastery spey 8/9 which weighs 700gr at 70ft, works quite well as a dry line on my (Sage) 9140. The St. Criox being just a little stiffer in the butt section, could handle a bit more,,,maybe. The stiffer butt just aids in getting sink tips up.
 
You could go with an accelerator 8/9 and if you cannot yet handle  whole thing with the sink tips, so what? If 65  ft is all you can handle, you are still doing as well as you could do with a mid spey. You could also get a double taper spey line (Orvis has them on sale for $35) and cut the tip off, install a loop and use the tips you now have.
 
Bottom line, watch the weight. Try not to exceed 650/725 grains for your "working" line. How much do your sink tips weigh? And what is the diameter at the back end where they will attach to your main line?
 
The best thing, if you are going to patch together lines , is to arm yourself with a  micrometer and a powder scale. Then you will know exactly what you have, and can go from there.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-05-2001, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: MJCDate: 11/5/2001 9:27 AM
Marty,  For some more good info on extending your windcutter look under Custom Lines. Sinktip started a thread called Windcutter--Extending the belly
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-06-2001, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: martyDate: 11/6/2001 5:46 AM

Appreciate the feedback. Naturally, all of you put way more questions than answers into my head! I was expecting to get more responses like 'Why I like/dislike Midspey/Accel.' , but I guess I can find some of those things by scanning past discussions. By the way, Fred, why didn't you like your Midspey?

I really didn't think about messing with cutting/looping lines when I started into this. Don't know if I want to now, but I do have access to a micrometer and a powder scale so I can do it right if and when.

The options you presented to me are:

1. Extend the belly of my WC. There are many references to this in past discussions ( I especially like the one from Bubba about how 'you can't shine s**t'!) Isn't this the same as getting the WC upgrade? I probably will have to cut either the upgrade section or my 29' floating tip to not overload the rod, according to JD. (Jr. Spey: What rod do you run the upgrade on? It seems to work well for you). Also, where does one get 'spey size' level line? Would anyone have 10' - 20' or more of level line they could part with and sell me if I went that route?

2. Buy a line. Accelerator 8/9; SA Mastery Spey 8/9, Orvis DT (what weight?). Haven't heard from any midspeyers, plus I'm afraid I'd want more head length before too long. What do people think of the hinge on the Accel. ? Strange to cast with it? Does anyone use double tapers out there exclusively, and with tips? Do they get out of control in the wind? It looks like the SA Mastery could be a good starting point to building a great line, according to prior posts.

I have to be honest with how big the rivers I'm fishing are. One of the rivers I fish can be fished in spots with no fly line out of the rod tip (dapping?). The average amount of line I shoot is probably around 12' and I occasionly fish spots where I might need to shoot around 30'. I do plan to fish the Sandy more this winter and I’m sure you could use all the length you could get and then some there.

Looks like I’m going through what most of you have gone through already, but I have the benefit of your prior knowledge and effort. Much appreciative of that. Special thanks, JD, for putting it all together in a concise ‘these are your options’ package and probably saving me countless hours of searching. Thanks also, MJC, for alerting me to Dana’s spey pages and the ‘custom line’ info. Many thanks to Dana for that information and this web site and I will sign up for a long overdue subscription to the Newsletter soon.

Thanks again,

Marty

ps   See the thread about the new SA lines coming? Can't wait!

 

 

 

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-06-2001, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: J.R. SPEYDate: 11/6/2001 1:03 PM
To answer the question thrown my way: I've used the Windcutter upgrade on both the Thomas & Thomas 15' 10 weight 5 piece and the Loop 15' 10 weight Blue. Understand that I haven't used the setup very often because I prefer the WC in its original form. To be honest, I bought the Upgrade to try and minimize the amount of stripping I'd have to do during the winter here in the midwest. Any amount of stripping creates incredibly cold hands (even with gloves) and significant ice in the guides when the air temperature is in the 20's or below. With those two rods I hardly notice the difference in line weight, though I'm not casting 100+' either. I find it makes less difference than putting a type 6 tip on in place of a floating tip.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-06-2001, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Fred EvansDate: 11/6/2001 1:22 PM
Marty, depending upon the rod/water I'm fishing I'll use a WC, Acrtr (the fav. of the long head lines) and DT's (usually a DT 7 on the 'old' brown 7136-4 or a DT 8 on the 'new' green 7136-4). Not sure what's up with me on not liking the MidSpey line, but I just found it to be clumsy as all heck to cast. Zip problem with the DT's, WC's or Aclrtr. If there's a 'hing' effect with the Aclrtr line it doesn't seem to an issue flinging heavy flys (usually two at a time) on 12-16 foot leaders. Line choice may be a bit like Goldie Locks finding a chair, porrage and bed that's "just right."
Fred
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