Two-Handers For Overhead Casting-Help Needed - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-24-2000, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Originator: 2HandTheSaltDate: 5/24/2000 2:22 PM

Boy am I glad to have finally found this place, and to see so many familiar names!

I am currently attempting to find the best rods for overhead casting big flies in the surf. ( By big, I mean BIG! Deceivers up to 10" long, and 15" long eel sliders.)

At present, I am using two rods from Thomas & Thomas, the 15' 9-weight, and 12' eight-weight. On the suggestion of Per & others, I have been trying to get my hands on the bigger T&T rods, but even the owner of the company can not get one to me. I have also briefly cast Juro's 12.5' Sage.

I am aware that Loomis makes some decent rods for this type of casting, but am wondering if there are any other rods out there that I should know about, which are well suited for powerful overhead casts, rather than spey casts.

So far, I am really impressed with the power and ease of casting the 15' 9-weight T&T. I have been able to throw about 135' of line with either the Rio Windcutter 9/10/11 multi-tip, or the AirFlo shooting head system. Repeated casts of big flies to 80-100' are a breeze.

My next question is: Does the 15' 10-weight T&T or the 16' 11-weight feel much heavier to cast than the 15' 9-weight? And will the 10 throw the Rio 9/10/11, or would I need to go to the 10/11/12 to load it properly for overhead casting?

My impressions of the shorter rods are that they are wonderful to cast, certainly much better than a one-hander, but the shorter length is not really to my liking, although they might suit someone with better mending and roll casting abilities. The line control you get with the longer rods is truly astonishing!

Juro, please give me a call!

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-26-2000, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: ospreyDate: 5/25/2000 8:19 PM
I have just started to use a Sage 8150-4 which is a slow/moderate speed rod, 8wt, 15 ft. Sage has a rod line called the European style that is crisper, faster and more stiff as a rod while remaining very light. I find with the eight-weight I can cast big flies but not like you are describing.

Have you tried this European line of the Sages at all? Juro can probably talk to the characteristics better than I, so he may still be your best bet....

Jay
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-26-2000, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: SpeyrdDate: 5/26/2000 1:46 AM
Am new to this board, but could offer a little imput.  If you can get your hands on a Loomis GL3- 9/10 14',  give it a try.
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-26-2000, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: 2HandTheSaltDate: 5/26/2000 4:45 PM

speyrd,

Are you saying that the GL3's are sufficiently fast for powerful overhead casting? I'd like that to be true, because they are certainly less expensive than the other choices....

Many Thanks,

J.Horton

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-27-2000, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: SpeyrdDate: 5/27/2000 3:32 PM

Not all the GL3's were created equal. The 9/10 has an action simmilar to the Euro style Sage, the 8/9 has a medium progressive action, nice for summer runs

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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-28-2000, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Per StadighDate: 5/27/2000 11:33 PM

Hello,

If Lon can't fix you up with a T&T 16' you should try to get a SAGE 15/10 3piece European (Graph III). It used to be my favorite rod and is one of the stiffest and most long casting over head rods ever made.

The line weight is under rated and you easily can step up 12 weight heads (35-45'). That rod will send your ghostly flies all the way out to the tunas!!

Per 

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-29-2000, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: 2HandTheSaltDate: 5/29/2000 12:41 AM

Per,

Are you saying that you prefer the Sage 15' 10, over the T&T in that configuration?

And what is your take on the new five-piece? Have youhad a chance to cast it?

Many Thanks,

J.Horton

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-30-2000, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: juro2Date: 5/30/2000 3:17 PM

Great thread....

Nice to recognize so many folks too.  As a steelie Spey addict recently transplanted to the northeast's striper country, I am also doing some research in this area.  Although the line control and Spey casting capabilities of the long rods are the ultimate on steelie (salmon) rivers, I couldn't get comfortable with my any of my several Spey rods in the pounding Cape Cod surf for a number of reasons and have acquired European two-handers.  Sage still maintains that initial pioneering spirit despite their success, and have been gracious enough to help through this research. 

As the season is getting underway, the testing is finally getting going after the long new england winter.  Look for field reports on http://www.flyfishingforum.com over the next few months.

The reason I like shorter two-handed rods for the application of striped bass and other Atlantic coastal species is:

a) General retrieve mechanics are to hold the rod with one hand, and strip retrieve with the other leaving the rod stationary and directed low to the water and toward the fly.  Although the casting is so much easier with 14-16 feet, the operative 'fishing' is not.  The strip retrieve requires bringing the whole fly line into the guides because the fish follow right to the end of the retrieve.  A softer 15 foot rod is less than ideal for this because it can be top heavy and awkward in the rod hand.  Just think of starting your Spey cast without the operative line length out of the guides for every cast... OK you get it.  ;-)  You do tuck the lower handle under the armpit, but a shorter rod is a much better strip retrieve / general fishing tool.  I like 12 feet but would be happier if it were even shorter to be suitable for use on a ...

b) ... Boat.  One of the great things about SWFF is the use of a boat.  When fishing from a 16 ft skiff, I personally wouldn't use a rod that is as long as the boat - yet the two-handed advantage for huge lines and flies as well as fatigue free casting and fighting of large fish with a nice extension handle is something that would be very nice in a hard running offshore rip with foot long squid flies and 500 grain lines.  Try that with one arm for a whole tide change!

c) Outer beaches often have a lot of flotsam and wind.  Dealing with removal of 'mung' from flies is somewhat of a comedy when the wind is blowing and you are too far from the tip of the rod, cast after cast.

e) Landing the fish... it's just not the same as the ritual of bringing that hard-earned steelhead or salmon to the rivers edge.  The surf is pounding with a wash that can suck a grown man into the current.  Small fish (under 24") can be mixed in with a blitz of big fish (40") and the whole opportunity can be measured in minutes or even seconds.  You want to be able to get at a fish quickly for removal at times, schoolie after schoolie with the sound of big cow bass busting the surface around.  It's frustrating to have to mess around with too much fulcrum.

I could go on and on.  My opinion, for what it's worth, is that folks think two-hands and automatically go 14 feet / Spey rod.  My experiences in both domains urge me to defy that generalization, in fact they are worlds apart.

Don't get me wrong - I love to Spey fish as much as anybody on my homewaters in the pacific northwest... (just ask a lot of the guys I fish with on this BB) but if you ask me the two (surf, stream) are too often construed as the same thing.  If anything, I hope the time I spend on this research project leads to a clearer understanding of the differences by the general surf fishing public out here in striper country.  Better yet... a new rod design tuned into the realities of surf fishing!

Juro

email:  [email protected]flyfishingforum.com

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-31-2000, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Per StadighDate: 5/30/2000 8:27 PM

This will be an answer to Jay's last question amalgated together with toughts around Juro's intersting entry:

For optimal long overhead casts and big flies nothing I have tried beats the T&T 16 (which also is a great Speyrod). The SAGE 15/10 Euro comes very close though and should be a bit easier to handle.

Taking Juro's practical comments into account a rod like SAGE 12'6" Euro for 10-11 weight heads should be a winner. I think it is discontinued, though. A nasty little stiff rod that sends shooting heads a long long way.

Speaking of weeds etc, I would fish nothing but LOOP traditionals. Then one can send the rod out into the wader to reach the tip. That is the only reel which performs better when wet than dry!!! I love them for deep wading due to same reason - no "water planing" discbrakes. Soak a Bogdan and the pricetag appears very stange indeed.....

Per

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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-31-2000, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Per StadighDate: 5/30/2000 8:36 PM

Forgive a sloppy Swede: The rod can be sent out into the WATER (not wader...)

Per

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