Best knots for backing-flyline? - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2002, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: MikeBDate: 1/25/2002 3:39 AM
Any advice as to the strongest knots for attaching the backing to the flyline would be appreciated.  It would kind of suck to get my line cleaned off the first time out!
Thanks,
Mike
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2002, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: lastcaststeveDate: 1/25/2002 3:50 AM
Dear Mike,
 
The best means of joining fly line to backing and also the strongest in my opinion is splicing the 2 together...a technique taught to me by another board member, and fishing buddy, Fisshman26, he can splice anything to anything..a world class guy (EH!) .and always willing to share information...I could try and explain, but he can do a far better job....His motto i think is ..."No Knots Needed" splice everything...he's definitely converted me!
 
Best regards,
Steve
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2002, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: fisshmanDate: 1/25/2002 4:44 AM
Hello Mike,
  Steve is far to kind with his praise.  If you e-mail me with your address  I can the send the info that Steve is talking about.  [email protected]
Talk to you soon.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2002, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: LohiDate: 1/25/2002 5:56 AM
Hello Mike,

There are many right ways to do the knots, splicing being one of them. However, I personally would use splicing only if I was absolutely sure that there were no line changes in the near future, as is a permanent kind on attachment in my mind. Furthermore, as the fyline-backing connection sees the sun so seldom (mine at least does), aslo slightly bulkier knots are acceptable there.

As here in Scandinavia we change the lines all the time (diffrent sinking rates), I would use a loop-to-loop connection, which enables quick line changes without any cutting or knotting. In making the loop, I splice the line, but obviously onto itself. Or in a semi-permanent case (no line changes in the near future), the Albright knot, which is strong and easy to tie.

Actually, the most important thing in my mind is that the backing you use is of at least the same breaking strength material as the main fly line, and above all, the leader is somewhat weaker, to be the fuse in your system, if things go wrong.

Kireitä siimoja, Lohi
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2002, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Bob MunozDate: 1/25/2002 8:10 AM
Hi Mike,
 
I'd agree with all the above.  I've been fussing around with different lines and have found it helpful to have a loop to loop conection from backing to flyline.  Having a small loop on the back of the flyline (make or buy) and a large loop biminy twist on the backing (so that you can put the whole reel through the loop when changing) has made the changes quick and easy.  That said, I still cringe a bit on the rare occasion that biminy knot goes through the guides.
 
All the best,
Bob
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-25-2002, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: TR3Date: 1/25/2002 6:43 PM
Most use 30# dacron for backing. It is very easy to make a loop large enough to go over your reel with a blind splice. Gudebrod makes a nice tool for making blind splices with directions, or you can do it your self with a wire tube threader. It is the same process used for making braided loops for fly lines. Be sure you use a second splice to lock in the loop. Strength should be 100%.
TR3
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-26-2002, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Bob MunozDate: 1/26/2002 4:07 PM
TR3
That sounds like a much better solution.  I'm familiar with making the small braided poly leader end loops for fly lines and tips.  When you make an end loop of backing how much of the tip do you pull through the standing part and do you need to whip finish it or just go in and out again?
Thanks
Bob
 
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-27-2002, 04:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: MikeBDate: 1/27/2002 12:55 AM
I've only got one line, which is a multi-tip, so I don't foresee changing lines at all for a while at least, so I just used an albright knot, which isn't too bulky at all.  A little coat of aquaseal gets rid of the sharp edges where the tag ends were cut so the knot slides through pretty smoothly.  I also helps that I have low frame SICs which don't seem to hang up knots with the same frequency as snakes.
Thanks for the advice though, I will probably need to use splices in the future so I have taken notes.
 
Mike
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-27-2002, 07:53 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: NrthFrk16Date: 1/27/2002 3:53 AM
I have found a Through The Line Needs Knot to be the strongest, cleaniest and easiest knot to tie.  I take a bodkin and push it up about 1/2 to 1 inch through the flyline and punch out.  I know thread the backing through the flyline by first threading a piece of folded over mono through the flyline and using the loop in the mono to pull the backing through the flyline.  I know tie my standard needle knot and am good to go.  Very strong and very clean!!!  One note, this knot can not be used to
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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-27-2002, 08:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: JohnDate: 1/27/2002 4:15 AM
To Bob,
Rio used to include instructions for making an end loop with each line.  My memeory is that they advised you to remove the coating form 5 or 6 inches of line,  insert a wire loop like a threader two inches down the core, and then out.  Shread the last half inch of the core and cut half of the strands off.  Put the remaining strands in the wire loop, and pull them into the core, and out the top.  Easier said than done.
 
You have to make sure that you have removed ALL of the coating by repeated soakings in acetone.  If you do not, the core remains firm and is impossible to pull. 
 
For trout lines, I just cement with head cement and aquaseal. For bigger fish, I tie one or two nail knots near the top or the splice before cementing. 
John
Of course, many of the new lines have a nearly solid core, and this won't work.
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-27-2002, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: loco_altoDate: 1/27/2002 4:29 AM
this may not be the strongest, but I just use a double surgeons to make a big loop in the backing.  I loop the flyline (either whipped or braided) to that. 
 
hasn't failed... yet
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-27-2002, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: stefanDate: 1/27/2002 6:16 PM
All,
 
I found the albright too bulky, so I use the good old nail knot. To be safe, I tie 2 nail knots about 4" apart. If the lower one slips (never happened to me) there still is the second one. Slides through th eguides very smoothly. To give proper credit: this "double-nail knot" was shown to me by Deschutes guide Mike Duley...
 
--Stefan
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2002, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: Bob MunozDate: 1/28/2002 3:38 AM
Thanks John,
 
I was actually wondering how to make a seamless loop on the backing that would replace the biminy I now use.  I presume you just pull it back through itself but is there any special technique that works best?
 
Bob
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2002, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: loco_altoDate: 1/28/2002 4:29 AM
The clearest instructions that I have found for making loops in backing are found on Dan Blanton's website
 
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-28-2002, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originator: JohnDate: 1/28/2002 7:05 AM
I agree with Loco.  However, Blanton's instructions are for making a loop in a braid that has not had a coating on it.  When putting the loop in a line that has had a coating, the insertion point  of the wire loop is at the top of the section where the coating is removed.
Even after I have done a thourough job of removing the coating, I often have difficulty pulling the braid into itself.  I have tried stretching the female section with a needle with limited success.  the reason you cut off half of the strands of the shreaded section, is to reduce the diameter of the section you are pulling.
Ideally, the male section should pull so easily that you can move it back and forth.  If you can pull it easily, you apply cement to as much of the male section as you can , and then pull the glued section into the female section. then coat with aquaseal.
I've done about a dozen of them and only two or three have been easy.  fortunately, you only have to do once for each lline.
I asked Jimm Vincent of Rio why they didn't put a loop at the end of the running line as a sales gimmick, and he said that it would add something like $7 to the cost of the line
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