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post #1 of 4 (permalink) Old 02-16-2000, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,411
Originator: WhitefishDate: 2/16/2000 6:36 PM
I've really been impressed with the knowledge/experience level of the group. One question I have is about European style casting and the nuances that equipment for this style seems to have. Can someone out there share with us the differences in style, where the European style is most useful and why you would need a Sage (for example) European rod vs a "PNW" rod?
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post #2 of 4 (permalink) Old 03-13-2000, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originator: DanaDate: 3/13/2000 5:57 AM

I've prodded Per to perhaps give some feedback here, but in the meantime have a look at the Loop website--I believe it has a tutorial on the Underhand cast that Per and others prefer.

I've been discussing this topic recently with another casting instructor and we both agree that the Euro rods such as the big Sage have faster tapers and tend to be a little light in the tip for "traditional" UK-style Spey casting because the tip deflects away from the caster while under load, thereby tending to cause the line to collide with itself as it rolls out on the forward part of  the cast. This doesn't seem to be a problem with the short shooting heads favoured on the Scandinavian rivers, and doesn't present as an issue when overhead casting. That said, I use the 16' Sage for much of my big water fishing such as the Thompson's flats and pools like Giants and Mouse on the Dean.

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post #3 of 4 (permalink) Old 03-13-2000, 10:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originator: Per StadighDate: 3/13/2000 7:16 AM
Dear Whitefish and Dana.

The terrible thing is that my workload is such that I find it hard to get focused on a longer entry on this dear subject.
Briefly I would say that the Euro style excells in thoise situations were "casting-space" is limited and/or one is fishing with really fast sinking lines.

With a shooting head, often of around 40' in length, the D-loop is so much smaller than when whacking around with full length lines. Basically one can stand in under a tree and get things flying almost as far as when wading in free water. Also the rod movements themselves are more restricted - in short one is working within a narrower "cone".

Another asset is that the shooting head set up leads to smaller an lighter reels, which in turn makes day long fishing less straining on arms and back. A light Euro rod and a Loop reel is very much lighter in hand than a tip heavy traditional Speyrod and a beefy Bogdan...

I'll be back.


PS. Traditionalist often make remarks about all the running line that I have to strip in between casts. Partly they are true - but they would be amazed if they new have many fish I have picked up in the process!!! DS.
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post #4 of 4 (permalink) Old 03-13-2000, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: Carl H.Date: 3/13/2000 10:13 AM


Being a member of a British game angling instructor's association (APGAI) as well as Scandinavian I thought that ought to share my thoughts about what you call European spey rods.
Firstly, I couldn't agree more to my countryman Per when he says
that it is sad that the term spey is used as a marketing gimmick.
In Europe there is no such thing as a spey rod - you have double handers and single handers and knowing that you can spey cast very well with a single handed rod (lots of people do in the smaller rivers) makes the term spey rod unnecessary. However, I realise that I am not the person to change the marketing involved here.

What people seem to refer to as the European style is a variation of the spey cast that Sweden's Göran Andersson invented some twenty years ago. Actually, this style differs so much in some respects that it should be treated as a cast of its own right. This cast is referred to
as the underhand cast in Scandinavia but since such a cast already exists this creates some confusion - some people use the term Andersson cast instead. Below is a short comparison between the spey and the "underhand" cast.

In a spey cast you shoot very little line instead you lift a long line
in order to make a long cast. You need a rod with lifting power i.e.
a rod that allows you to keep tension of the line throughout the cast
(as Dana mentions). Suitable rods for this have a relatively heavy tip
section and softer butt.  Another benefit of this action is that it is
easier to flex the rod for you final roll cast.

On the other hand with the underhand cast you use a short head and you have to shoot line for achieving longer casts. You anchor your long leader to the surface and not parts of the line. For the rather short power stroke in this cast you apply power with your lower hand only - not equal and opposite force as for a spey cast. You also have a higher release angle. A faster, progressive action rod is more suitable for this style of casting but in my opinion there are rods that are too fast for this and better suited to overhead casting.
Some of the benefits with this style are that because of the shooting head you always work with the same weight outside the rod tip and it is easier to get distance in tight corners. Wide angle changes are also easy with this cast.
As drawbacks are sometimes mentioned the fact that you have to pull in line for every new cast, you cannot mend the line when it has landed on the water and the long leader in a headwind. Personally, I don't find these things to present too much of a problem - there are ways to deal it.

Hope that you get the basic idea - I know only too well that this can be pretty hard to understand by reading a description only. Nothing beats a demonstration, that I know.
Speaking of which I will be instructing in the US for some months this
spring and if anyone is interested please e-mail me and I will give you
further details.

Carl H.

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