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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-07-2001, 01:08 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: Scott KDate: 10/7/2001 8:08 AM
Anyone in here have problems with the TT and it's floating properties? This is my second "edition" of this line and it has the properties of a full type 2 sinking line the way it rides in the water column. I really really really have to nail my timing down or it sinks in the water colum and really hinders the cast poorly and this is after very small amounts of usage so far (1 hour, 2 times casting, so about 2 hours, should I need to clean it already?). Anyone else having the same problem or is it just me? The floating head of my doesn't offer me this much trouble, no does the clear head or the type 5 sink tip to be plain honest! Any suggestions/comments?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-07-2001, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: J.R. SPEYDate: 10/7/2001 12:07 PM
To get the answers you want you may need to clarify your post. The last sentence, in particular, has me really confused.

Wulff lines do not seem to float as high as most other brands. Many casters actually consider this to be an advantage in spey casting because you can get more "stick" with a line that floats in the surface rather than on top of it. If your line actually sinks, especially when you are not casting but just testing it (like in the bathtub) then you have a defective line. Are you sure you got a floating (ivory colored) line and not the intermediate (green)? I'm not trying to insult you, but some people may think that the only difference between the two colors is the color, not realizing the green will sink.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2001, 12:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: Scott KDate: 10/8/2001 7:46 AM
Sorry about that, it was late last night, LOL.
I currently own a Sage 9140-3 which I match with an SA Mastery Tri Tip 10 wt line system. This line system has 65 feet of total Belly (forward taper, belly, rear taper combined) and comes with a floating tip, a clear intermediate tip, and a type 5 tip, all 15 feet in length.  This line system casts admirably for myself with this matchup, but I was looking for more after putting a bit of practice in.
I managed to pickup a Lee Wulff 9/10 TT Spey (yes the Ivory floater) for cheap at a discount rack in a local shop.
Having heard of this type of thing in the past, I decided what I wanted to do was cut off the forward taper of the TT and put a Kevlar Loop on the end of the main Belly of the TT where I made the cut and Loop it to the Mastery Tri tip and use it (the TT forward taper) as a huge (about 55-60 feet) floating tip. This would aid in delivery, turnover, longer distance mending,  and presentation, at least in theory as the TT's extended forward taper is a very sensible taper design considered by many, and who I've talked to suggest this may be a better combination then either of these lines by themselves.
Do you follow me so far?
So now I have about 50 or so feet of SA Belly, a Loop connection, and then about 55-60 feet of TT forward taper,
about 110 feet of Belly and/or Forward Taper.
So I took this line out to my favourite river to get away from it all and get some casting in, and I was pushing more line then I've ever cast to date with this setup with ease. Around 95 feet if I nailed my timing down and 70 feet was coming with consistency. I was happy to say the least, but still modest considering I knew I didn't need this amount of line in most situations, but it's still nice to throw a bit of line and at my expierience level it sure gave me a good vote of confidence in myself. This was about an hour or so of solid casting. I took it out again, and I noticed that the line all of a sudden didn't ride high in the water colum and I had a very hardtime nailing the casts, period, even at shorter distances than before with the TT head. I emailed TT about it and they sent me a replacement. When the replacement arrived, now marked TT 9 as they changed the way they mark their lines now, same thing, Took the badboy out, cast great the first hour or so of solid practice. Next day out, it was bogged down and wouldn't cast worth a rats you know what as again, it began to sink slightly and ride low in the water column. To see if maybe there was something wrong with my casting, I even put my intermediate head on, and then my type 5 tip (removed the TT floating "tip" right off to do this obviously)
and they were much easier to time and cast compared to the TT, and the TT is a floating line!!! I did this in both instances to maybe see if it was the caster.
So what I'm asking, is there something I'm not doing? I mean, TT asks that you clean your line, but after one hour of casting, not fishing??? I clean my SA line every 10 solid outings or so, and even if I didn't it would still probably float better. Is there something I'm not doing? Do I have to adjust how I form my D loop, maybe be more "intense" in paying attention to my D Loops?? Because of the D Loop and the taper of the TT, is the line more prone to collapse on itself in the D loop because the heavier section is falling, not rising on the lighter thinner section?
Any advice/comments are appreciated....
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2001, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: J.R. SPEYDate: 10/8/2001 1:42 PM

This is a real shot in the dark, but I'm guessing that water is entering the line where you cut off the forward taper from the running line. Though there does not appear to be run for that to happen, in fact it can, and it takes only minute amounts before your line will no longer float.

Perhaps Bubba or someone else who does a lot of line splicing can add to this (or tell me I'm all wet) but I've had this happen in the past when I cut off the level tip section found in the front of most lines. I now make an attempt to seal that before tying on a leader butt.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2001, 06:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: J.R. SPEYDate: 10/8/2001 1:45 PM
Hopefully everyone figured out the r-u-n in the previous post was supposed to be r-o-o-m. These things need spell-checkers!
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2001, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: BruceDate: 10/8/2001 4:11 PM
Yes you must always seal your exposed core(zap-a-gap).  But I think more likely the problem is that when you extend the front taper your line is extreeemly timing and thecnique sensitive.  Are you picking up and shooting line or just picking up and returning what you lifted?  Did you match the diams. of the two lines where they meet?  60ft of taper is really to long you should try for 40ft max.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2001, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: Scott KDate: 10/8/2001 5:53 PM
Hey Fellas,  thanks for the replies.
The thing about both the ends to where I made cuts in my lines.
For instance I cut the SA Loops off and put Kevlar ones on, they're better for durability, and I had to cut the TT obviously to install a kevlar loop on it so I could loop these two lines together as I mentioned above. When I put the Kevlar loops on, I double coat the whole kevloar loop in "Dave's Flexament" as well as wrapping them with monocord before as well. Will this not be enough to seal the core?. The SA one is still riding high where as the TT is becoming a sinker somewhat.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-08-2001, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originator: Scott KDate: 10/8/2001 6:05 PM
Also, to add and answer Bruce's Q. Using my "hand" micrometer....I feel that the SA Line near the Loop and the TT line near the Loop are of a very similar if not the same diameter. Maybe not exact, but I don't think if there is some variation that it's enough to have an effect on casting...
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 10-09-2001, 06:54 AM Thread Starter
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Originator: loco_altoDate: 10/9/2001 1:54 AM
I sometimes use a TT front taper on my spey rod, but I've never found that the line sinks after an hour of use. It does not float quite as high - that I am sure of - but it ain't sinking! I'd guess that theTT lines, straight out of the box, are coated with so much lubricant and floatant (and no grime) that they could float a Pfleuger! The AST lines are great in comparison for floatation and sustained cleanliness, and maybe that is what you are discovering by accident! When the river gunk dried on your TT line in between uses, it might have caused the line to float poorly. Instead of a full cleaning on the river, try using a sock or rag or shirtsleeve to rub off the grime when it starts to sink. Just pull the line through a rag to get the gunk off. It should still float unlubricated, though won't shoot as far.
Perhaps as important, as others have noted, the TT lines are veeery sensitive to timing. For me they don't cast as well at short distances because they lack enough mass to load the rod properly in the D-loop. more line out, good load ... OK - that's a real tradeoff, and so I use my extended TT tip selectively. However, that might be why you could easily cast the SA lines (15' long) but not the extended TT taper (takes more line to load the rod). Nothing like having a rod properly loaded to make easy casts. If you were casting the sinking SA tip just fine, but not the inadvertently sinking TT tip, then that tells me that the sinking ain't the problem, but instead the line geometry/mechanics.

good luck
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