Light line steelhead - Spey Pages
 81Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 394
Light line steelhead

I was just reading an interview done with Bob Clay. The question was asked " what is your favorite rod for your home water" Bob said it was a 11ft. 5/6 wt. He pointed out that a 5/6 is a 350 grain rod. That translates to a 12wt. single hand rod. Now I would think that for Kispiox steelhead I would choose at least an 8wt. But Bob makes a good point. At times I feel way over gunned when using a 7wt. for great lakes fish. Rob
RobP is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 06:46 PM
Relapsed Speyaholic
 
sinktip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: All S-Rivers Above the Equator
Posts: 5,266
I have landed fish on a 4/5 and Iíve landed them on an 11/12. And every line rating in between. All work but I think the important consideration in making sure the rod that you use is sufficient to land and release the fish in a timely manner without putting undue stress on them. For my local hatchery summer runs, the 4/5 works. For wild B-run fish in a few rivers, it would be criminal to use anything less than an 8 or larger.

Iím sure Bob Clay knows more about the Kispiox than I ever will but based on my four trips up there, I would never use a 5 weight.

Hardy-Davidson

"Loud reels save lives"
.
sinktip is offline  
post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 06:48 PM
Registered User
 
Rifflehitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: all s rivers, but Sky is home.
Posts: 1,734
I doubt the 5/6 has the lifting power that a 12wt does, personaly I wouldnt use anything less than a 8wt any place theres a high chance of 30# steelhead.

Tight lines! B K Paige
"Occupy Skagit"
Wishin I was fishin the Sauk!!!
Rifflehitch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 07:07 AM
Administrator
 
GR8LAKES FLYER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: All Rivers flowing into Georgian Bay
Posts: 17,093
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinktip View Post
I have landed fish on a 4/5 and Iíve landed them on an 11/12. And every line rating in between. All work but I think the important consideration in making sure the rod that you use is sufficient to land and release the fish in a timely manner without putting undue stress on them. For my local hatchery summer runs, the 4/5 works. For wild B-run fish in a few rivers, it would be criminal to use anything less than an 8 or larger.

Iím sure Bob Clay knows more about the Kispiox than I ever will but based on my four trips up there, I would never use a 5 weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifflehitch View Post
I doubt the 5/6 has the lifting power that a 12wt does, personaly I wouldnt use anything less than a 8wt any place theres a high chance of 30# steelhead.
There was this guy, his name was Archimedes, he taught the world about levers, fulcrums and applied force ... among other things. I think people should re-read his teachings, just brilliant !! So concise, the scientific community made it into a "law".

Mr. tip and Mr. Riffle have read that "law" and understand it I see ... I'm with them


Mike
steeliesncarp and josie like this.

Have you Swung a Spey Fly today ??
GR8LAKES FLYER is offline  
post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 394
In one of Bob's videos he shows and explains his technique when playing a fish. He keeps the rod tip low and plays the fish more off the butt of the rod instead of the tip. Could be why he feels comfortable using a lighter rod. Of course when I fished with him 30 years ago we were still using single hand 8wt. and double hauling teeny 300's. Thank god for 2h rods now.Rob
RobP is online now  
post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 10:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: OR
Posts: 2,998
I've landed steelhead on 4 and 5 wt speys. If fish are smaller, half pounders especially, they are a lot of fun. And fighting a big fish off the reel is possible, but I find having the lifting strength to lift a larger fish at the end of the fight isn't there, and at that point I really want that fish let loose, it draws things out. I prefer a 6 or higher when expecting fish of 6 lbs or more.

Having a net person ready makes a difference, as it's fairly simple to fight them off the reel of a lighter set up, and have then fairly well subdued and hanging just out of reach of tailing.
SLSS is online now  
post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 10:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 31
A bamboo rod can have WAY more pressure applied to it than a graphite rod all things being equal.

If you're fighting the fish more off the reel and using heavier leads that can impact how much pressure you can apply much more so than just the stiffness of the rod.

I doubt you would see him prefer a rod of that type if made from graphite.

"There are many ways to salvation, and one of them is to follow a river." David Brower
B.G.S. is offline  
post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 11:15 AM
MrT
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: American River, Delta
Posts: 36
Are we talking two different things here? casting versus lifting?


A 350 grain rod equates to a 12wt SH in casting power perhaps, but not fighting strength.


I fish SoCal offshore with live bait and its critical to fish the rod to the bait. Small bait doesn't swim well on heavy line and simply wont get bit- period.

As the stocks dwindle, and bait is often smaller as well you have to down size the rod. Most times you fish a rod based on the line lb test There are more and more people who don't even use the rod as a fighting tool in the old fashioned sense because the lighter rod doesn't have pulling power. Once hooked the fish is fought by using the reel, not the rod. Point almost straight at the fish and use very small moves to gain line. It's striking how easy and fast you can land a big fish using the method.

In Japan there is a group that fish jigs very deep on really light, limber rods. They use small reels with strong smooth drags and catch large fish easily using the same technique.


Archimedes was right- a short lever will have more lifting power than a long one. That's not debatable. If we are using 11-15 ft spey rods we lose power compared to say a 9 ft SH.
MrT is online now  
post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 11:42 AM
Drags are for Sissys
 
waynev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Credit, Catt, Grand
Posts: 307
Have fun with a 4/5/6 weight 11 or 12 footer while in standing in waist deep stained water on a windy day on a run where the price of a admission is a larger fly; sink tip and a 100 ft cast.

Not disagreeing that down sizing rod weight and size inst a good thing when it is possible; but often the rod weight and length used to fish steelhead is dictated by conditions and not the fish size. (at least where; when and how I fish steelhead) :-)
waynev is offline  
post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 12:38 PM
Registered User
 
Steelheadfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 386
Ive had this conversation/debate many times. I even started a thread in the general section of this forum quite a few years ago about it. "Under gunned"? Maybe? Anyways, I've always been a firm believer that a heavier rod is far better than a lighter one when it comes to the best thing for the fish. I've had guys say they can play and land a 20# steelhead with no issues all day long on a 5/6# rod, and do it in a timely manner. Well, what's a timely manner? I'm in the mind set that Id rather get a fish in the net that's still thrashing then one bellied up that just slides into the net and doesn't move during hook retrieval. So just for instance, this fall I landed a fish pushing 25# and was lucky to do so. Twice well into my backing (150' of running line and about another 50' of backing). At one point I could not turn the fish. It just held to the point I though it was hung up. My rod was literally "corked". 13'6 8# ECHO 3 with 20# leader. I did manage to finally turn the fish and manage to winch it back but at the end of the day, a 5/6# would not of got the job done. If it did, the fish would have been dead. I think a 5/6 is great if 6-8lb steelhead in smaller systems is they mainstay. For Skeena drainage fish, 8# minimum.
fisshman26, Brambo, josie and 1 others like this.
Steelheadfreak is offline  
post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 12:55 PM
Registered User
 
eriefisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Lower Grand River, Saugeen and everything else wet.
Posts: 1,076
Peter Charles has talked, a few times, about a test he did with the Pro4x line up I believe. He set up a means to measure pull so it was the same for each rod weight/length. What he found was that each rod pulled the same amount which I think he said was only about 5lbs. This was with him pulling as hard as he could with all rod weight and lengths in the line up. You would need to confirm with him about the exact details but I found it interesting to say the least.

Longer rods for bigger rivers. Of course conditions play a big part of this equation.

Dan

Which way to the river?
eriefisher is online now  
post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 01:53 PM
MHC
Registered User
 
MHC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: S Ontario rivers plus various lakes for warm water species.
Posts: 584
Watched an interesting video of a saltwater angler experimenting with the lifting power of s/h fly rod on the beach complete with bucket o' sand and pully. The more aloft the rod was held to pull the less weight could be lifted.

Bob Clay plays his fish also with the rod low, in order to protect the tip of his hollowed bamboo rods, as a result it makes sense that he is able to use lighter rods.

Watch Lee Wulff cast to then land Atlantics on a single hander..


Malcolm
HumberRskagit likes this.
MHC is offline  
post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 02:02 PM
Registered User
 
coalbe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Anything within 6hrs of Portland, Oregon.
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrT View Post
Are we talking two different things here? casting versus lifting?


A 350 grain rod equates to a 12wt SH in casting power perhaps, but not fighting strength.
Bingo. Exactly what I was thinking. Although this conversation is all relative to the potential size of the fish in the water you're fishing.
jdcross likes this.

"Take care of the fish, and the fishing will take care of itself." ó Art Neumann
coalbe is offline  
post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 02:28 PM
BULL DOG!!!!
 
fisshman26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: B.C.- trout and steelies
Posts: 1,667
All things being equal I would much rather be overgunned for the fishes sake at all times than undergunned.....
sinktip, sixrivers, waynev and 6 others like this.

Bruce Kruk
________________

Team Gaelforce

Columbia river Speyed trout guide
Ruggedpointlodge.com
Columbia River Flyfishing
fisshman26 is online now  
post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 03:01 PM
The Skeena in the fall
 
jdcross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 224
While a 12 wt. single and a 5/6 double may throw similar line weights there is a difference in how the rods play the fish

If we take a 9' 12 wt and a 20+ Kispiox steelhead, I'll assume we would be holding that 9' rod somewhere on the blank above the corks.
Let's say at the 2' mark
That gives the steelhead a 3.5 to 1 lever on the fisherman.
Now if we took a 13' rod at the 2' mark it's a 6.5 to 1 lever
That means the long lightweight rod gives the fish the maximum leverage and will require the fisherman to be play the fish off the reel not the rod.
That also means it will take longer to bring the fish in to release.

In this time of reduced numbers it's criminal to play a fish too long.

This summer on the Dean River I watched a fisherman from California play a 40" + steelhead to exhaustion.
It went belly up when he eventually released it.

We need to respect the fish and take tackle geared to the largest fish we may encounter.

Last edited by jdcross; 12-11-2019 at 10:41 PM.
jdcross is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Spey Pages forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome