Light line steelhead - Page 4 - Spey Pages
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post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 08:27 AM
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I think my point has been misinterpreted somewhat. I've done my fair share of lift plans for cranes, been around them for 35 years in construction and now days, the site requires my signature to do lifts. There is a lot more in comparing a crane with a 40ft boom and a crane with a 100ft boom for a lift. I have never lifted a steelhead or salmon out of the river. That is not the function of a rod. So the fulcrum in this case is all about applied force ratio, to exiting force, giving force resolution.
Yes, the rod is indeed a shock-absorber, some call it a spring, which indeed adds to the "cushion" effect, let's call it deflection and reflection. That is a governing factor of the "power" rating of the tube, which dictates how much force can be applied to the tube (or lever) before it either breaks or collapses.

An 8wt single handed rod is compared to a 5wt switch rod in grain ratings if you use some of the resources we have out there in selecting lines from Rio, Airflo and OPST, just to name a few, in which rod designers have come up with, not saying it's right or wrong, but to use as a comparison. To put that into perspective, I wouldn't use an 8wt rated rod to chase trout in my local creek, but I would use a designated 5wt rod.

I'm all about matching gear with the conditions, I think that is the most important factor in choosing what we fish with. It shouldn't just be about how comfortable we want to be and I completely agree with jdcross's statement about fine tuning and outfit from a 8/9 to a 7/8 or maybe even lighter if conditions dictate and I agree completely with Vic's statement about, "the right tool for the job". I'm all about that and I evaluate each of my outings that way. However, I feel in no certain circumstances, should my decision ever be potentially harmful to the fish. I would never use a 6/7 rated two-hander during my salar hunt on the east coast, I don't even bring one. The potential to have a 30lb plus fish take my fly is too great. Yes, technique has a lot to do with it, however when you don't have the horsepower to apply, it's an up hill battle all the time. That in my opinion, is disrespecting the fish from the beginning no matter how you cut it.
My concern is, why would anyone take the chance of harming one of these fine creatures.

PS: Rifflehitch - Right-On and I share your statement completely !!


Mike

Have you Swung a Spey Fly today ??
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post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcross View Post
A very big difference between choosing between a 7/8 or 8/9 Spey and a 3 or 4 wt single handed.

One is fine tuning the day's fishing.
The other is going out to do some damage to a diminishing resource.
OK. Based only experience I believe that the average steelhead (8 to 12#) will pop off of a 3/4 weight outfit right at the grab with less stress and swim off with little more than a sore lip. That's just my take on what Todd was referring to in mentioning light tippets. I don't see how it could be more damaging than playing-out and releasing fish with more appropriate gear.


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Originally Posted by RobP View Post
I was just reading an interview done with Bob Clay. The question was asked " what is your favorite rod for your home water" Bob said it was a 11ft. 5/6 wt. He pointed out that a 5/6 is a 350 grain rod. That translates to a 12wt. single hand rod. Now I would think that for Kispiox steelhead I would choose at least an 8wt. But Bob makes a good point. At times I feel way over gunned when using a 7wt. for great lakes fish. Rob
To be honest I don't know that there is light-line steelhead fishing to be done at the Kispiox. I mean I don't plan being there anytime soon so don't know how the runs have been in recent years. An AFFTA standard SH 12wt line is 380 (+/-) at 30 feet which is how I understand what is being said. Also that the average SH line has a body/head of 40 to 45 feet so are a little heavier. Now then, a 45 foot taper ranging 400 to 430 grain... we're talking 8/9 weight AFFTA TH line standard. Does that say anything about the rod? We already know rod makers label rods as they see fit and if Bob says it is his fave - I don't have reason to doubt that it would also be appropriate.
Being there, looking at a pool with several larger than average fish, or hearing of numerous large fish in recent days... may be a different story.
It may be a smaller-than-average fish year. It may be very few but very large fish run, all of which can sway gear selection one way or the other. Experience tells me that runs do go in cycles.

Last edited by fish0n4evr; 12-16-2019 at 03:51 PM.
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post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-16-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Rifflehitch View Post
Targeting 1/2 pounders with a 9' 4/5wt is totally appropriate, right tool for the right job. But I would never consider that appropriate for steelhead reaching 30 pounds. Hell I wouldnt even consider it even for 12 pound fish.

People will bitch and complain about a picture of a fish out of the water but be totally ok with using too light of takle for the fish they care so much about.(Not talking about anyone in this thread but in general social media)
Yes they do, bitch that is, and when the more correct thing to do is to record and report.

I don't think anyone is saying anything close to the above though???
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post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-17-2019, 04:12 PM
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Light-line trout outfits are 2/3 weight, heavy-line outfits are 6/7weight.

For the sea-run variety; Anywhere from 4/5/6 for the smaller strains, 8/9/10 weight for the largest strains.

Obviously, for the larger stains of steelhead a 4/5/6 wt outfit is not appropriate where 7/8/9 wt outfit is light-line and 8/9/10 is heavy.
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post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-18-2019, 01:23 AM
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[QUOTE=fish0n4evr;2485504]OK. Based only experience I believe that the average steelhead (8 to 12#) will pop off of a 3/4 weight outfit right at the grab with less stress and swim off with little more than a sore lip. That's just my take on what Todd was referring to in mentioning light tippets. I don't see how it could be more damaging than playing-out and releasing fish with more appropriate gear. [quote]

Todd is posting about fishing for steelhead with a 4 wt. single or 3 wt. double rod. He uses an 8-10 lb tippet.
Thatís the same tippet size I use for summer fish on my 7-9 wt Spey outfits.
No reason a steelhead should pop off on a 4 wt single with a 10 lb tippet any more than the same tippet on a #9 wt. outfit.
If the fish tugs and the line is fixed the fish will likely get hooked on either a 4 wt or 9 wt.

What matters is the gear being used to play that 8-12 lb fish.
In my view a 4 wt single rod is simply not up to the task and the angler using this tackle is risking hurting the fish.
Itís just bad judgement.

I too, in my experience, have watched many steelhead hurt by anglers using tackle too light for the fish.
And the steelhead not the angler pays the price!

Time for all of us anglers to show sound judgement with our tackle choices and show respect for the fish.
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post #51 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-18-2019, 03:08 AM
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My game is the bend in the rod ,5-7lb summer run on a 8wt spey 60% chance fish will get off ,5-6wt spey will have a greater bend in rod fish wont get off 60% of time ,but you should use rod wt size to biggest fish you could hook .
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post #52 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-18-2019, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifflehitch View Post
I have that rod and probably sold you that blank as well as sold quite a few to others that came to AATF. One of whitch used it all year long and used it for Spring fish up in the PNW, were he caught and landed a large buck with a length reaching 41" and weighed close to 25#. He promptly came back to the shop and built a CND Skagit specialists, a much better choice for large steelhead, and he definitely felt that rod was lacking and over played that fish.

Had another friend from the shop hook and land a 13# fish on the Skykomish with a 6wt single hander, using the but of the rod to put pressure on the fish. It worked but watching him and trying to coach him there was a lot more of the rod that could have been used, and that fish could have been landed sooner.

When I play a fish I'm using the whole rod, tip section, mid and butt. If you are only using the butt of a rod you are not playing the fish properly. If you look at 98% of videos out there the angler just stands there with the rod tip up in the air at about a 45 degree angle as everyone says keep the tip up.

If you put the rod tip down in the water, down stream and to the bank you will have so much more control over the fish as this pulls their head down and almost paralyzes them, and you can just reel them in right up to your rod tip with out a lot of pressure. As soon as they touch bottom off they go, let them go and as soon as the stop do it again. you will whip them in half the time you used too.

I had videos of this but they have been lost and have taught dozens of anglers this technique.
It works give it a try, but far too many people just stand there doing nothing letting the fish rest. If the fish isn't running, jumping or thrashing around you should be reeling them in with pressure on their head.

It's a fight and I take more than they do and win every time, except the ones I lose, and I'm not afraid to lose fish, so I play them hard with no quarter given!
You'll see saltwater guys who fish for giant trevally,milk fish, etc do this technique you described. especially during the initial hook up when the fish wants a mega run that might spool you or gain great distance. They try to drive the fishes head not only away but DOWN so its facing the sand. That way it basically feels a wall is blocking the run and is off balance on top off it. this is basically stuffing much of that first run and landing the fish much faster.

''Fish on''
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post #53 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-18-2019, 11:44 AM
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Todd is posting about fishing for steelhead with a 4 wt. single or 3 wt. double rod. He uses an 8-10 lb tippet.
That’s the same tippet size I use for summer fish on my 7-9 wt Spey outfits.
No reason a steelhead should pop off on a 4 wt single with a 10 lb tippet any more than the same tippet on a #9 wt. outfit.
If the fish tugs and the line is fixed the fish will likely get hooked on either a 4 wt or 9 wt.

What matters is the gear being used to play that 8-12 lb fish.
In my view a 4 wt single rod is simply not up to the task and the angler using this tackle is risking hurting the fish.
It’s just bad judgement.

I too, in my experience, have watched many steelhead hurt by anglers using tackle too light for the fish.
And the steelhead not the angler pays the price!

Time for all of us anglers to show sound judgement with our tackle choices and show respect for the fish.[/QUOTE]


Good morning everyone.

Intentionally hooking fish for sport or otherwise has the potential to cause harm.

I have a good hunch about the rod he's reffering. But lets just imagine a 40 inch steelhead takes a size 8 hook and doubles-over a typical 4wt rod... lock down on the reel, point the rod toward the fish, a few head shakes from the fish ... off it goes. Easy peasey. The only to suffer damage would be the trophy hunters' self-esteem for not gearing up.

At my home we revere fish. It is always extra-special and held to a higher regard.
Vic.
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post #54 of 54 (permalink) Old 12-18-2019, 01:53 PM
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Good morning everyone.
Intentionally hooking fish for sport or otherwise has the potential to cause harm.
I have a good hunch about the rod he's referring. But lets just imagine a 40 inch steelhead takes a size 8 hook and doubles-over a typical 4wt rod... lock down on the reel, point the rod toward the fish, a few head shakes from the fish ... off it goes. Easy peasey. The only to suffer damage would be the trophy hunters' self-esteem for not gearing up.
At my home we revere fish. It is always extra-special and held to a higher regard.
Vic.[/QUOTE]

Vic

I agree with you completely.

But I don't think you would purposely go out to fish for steelhead with a 4 wt. single handed fly rod.
If you read Todd's blog you will note he champions fishing for steelhead with his 4 wt.
That's what I object to.

I once caught an steelhead fly fishing for cutthroats with my Hardy #7 Koh-I-Noor.
Couldn't break that fish off fast enough.
No need to damage a steelhead and a bamboo rod over an accidental fish.
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