SRNY - Report - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
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SRNY - Report

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It has been a grey week, freezing rain and some snow. I took the opportunity to see if this warm winter has seen an increase of fresh (chrome) steelhead, but alas no. I continue to swing flies, so I had a good couple of days of fishing and a couple of days of no catching.

The freezing rain did bring some solitude, but was a little frustrated-disappointed with some other nymph fishing-people low-holed me (or effectively stepped into my swing (lower fly fishing zone)). I eventually walked away and found some good water under little pressure.

You would think they get it, when they walk out and touch your line.

I got a couple of tugs off a black with green-chartreuse speys. I keep with with my Scandi on Sage Z-Axis 7136 and used tips from tips weights of 3, 6 and 8, fishing from small to large. My forward casting is getting better, but I need more practice.

As far as those who caught and landed fish, here are my observations:
•Saw people dragging out some sorry Coho.
•Steelhead were dark, saw one chrome jumper.
•No Browns.
•Water Temp: 33F and flow was at 500+ CFM.
•One of my favourite spots, had some solitude. It was also being worked by a fine spey caster with his back in the trees. On walking out, believe I re-meet Rick Kutish. If it was Rick or not, we agreed it was not productive catching. Oh well, if we want fish we would center-pin.
•Lower Fishing Zone – Top Pool at the Top, River Left. One gentleman from MASS had the best-bad luck, and after 3 hours was 1-10. Said he was using 3x tippet, but was not able to keep them on. With 3x Tippet, he should have been able to pull them in harder. He was rigged with a float and a orange fly 8+’ below.
•Lower Fishing Zone – Top Pool at the Top, River Right – Dave a Musican from NJ (I believe) nymphed below a float landed a nice dark steelhead (with the broke broken to boot). A find gentleman and great to share the pool with (until I was crowded out).
•OldFarts: The float-nymphers were getting NADA, but across, some nice spey fishing by 3 guys, with a tug.
•Just above Altmar Bridge, a few small dark steelhead were taken. All people nymphing with floats.
•Got a tug late out of School-House. I was only person swinging a fly.
•Disappointed people who take the fish and leave it on the stringer, do not humanely kill the fish right away.
•Some some ugly Coho pulled out from the Electrical Towers. Mostly float fishing, and a few spin rods.
•At Refrigerator, met Pat Miura with a couple of clients. A friendly soul, who acts with consideration.
•No-one reported any success at Ellis.
•I believe I found a “chute” at Pineville USCG reporting station which strip and eventually ripped the head off my fly line. I had to recreate a loop head and eventually buy a replaced tip. I lost a Blue Heron. Also dropped a Lady Caroline (duh) and earlier placed a Blue Spade in the trees across the river.
•Saw a bright steelhead jump at the Pineville Bridge.
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post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 04:59 PM
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Raspberry-patch,

Thanks for sharing your report. I've never been to NY let alone fished anywhere there, so please pardon the lack of familiarity of my comments and questions. Is it the norm there to fly fish the swing on water as heavily fished as you describe? I would never fish my local waters under those conditions unless the pools were heavily supplied with fish or large numbers were moving through at the time. Most of our waters (PNW) hold zero to a few steelhead per pool, and swinging a fly through water where any fish are already disturbed by other, more effective gear types particularly, is extremely unproductive.

500 cfm is an extremely small creek, and 500 cfs is still a very small river in my experience, especially for swinging flies through. And 33*F just makes a strike that much more unlikely. Maybe NE fish are used to colder water and remain more active. Our fish go plumb dour when the water temp drops below 38*F, and they really don't move well to the fly until it's above 40*F.

I look forward to learning more about steelhead fishing in the waters and prevailing conditions of the NE, but I fear the cold would deter me from trying it.

Sg
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post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 05:00 PM
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Nice report , I spent about 5 days there in early Dec. we fished hard and got no fish . the water ranged from 1000cfs to 1650cfs the only fish i saw caught were at the lower fly zone and they were very dark steelhead . I enjoyed the scenery and really liked some of the runs ,the compactor run and sportsman pool were nice to fish. It would have been nice to get a fresh steelie but it just didnt happen , thats fishing i guess.

" The journey is better than the inn. "
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post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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some answers

SG.

1. It is CFS (sorry, in some designs that are part of my work, CFM is the UOM and frequently spoke of).

2. There are times of a year, you will never find the space to allow you swing a fly or allowance to do it. But there are a few who do, and more and more, I see some acknowledgement for this, and there is some places to do so.

David
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post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 08:48 PM
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David
Thank you for a very informative report.
With all this "warmer" weather....how were the crowds?

It is funny how 20 degree temps and 2 feet of snow on the ground will cut down the crowds. What ever happened to the good old days!
45 degrees and raining today in the Adirondacks....

Jimbo
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post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-27-2012, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Crowds were good during the week (not weekend)

Crowds were good during the week (not weekend). I am not sure I want to fish the Fly-Fishing Zone - people concentrated to the top and fish are dark - IMHO.
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post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-28-2012, 01:41 AM
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Flossing

Great report. Tried twice to get up there on those few balmy days last couple weeks. Course times I could get away brought the cold snap right back so I never ventured

So I live vicariously through your swing report

Pat Muira is a heck of a guide. He can see fish! Took me to south sandy when temps were sub zero and water high. Great time fishing with him, caught way more fish than I expected for wicked cold day and frozen fly line that broke a rod tip. He is cheap wade guide with great skills. Cracks me up that his passion is pre spawn bassin tournaments with full on gear and sponsor laden shirts.

I and everyone know that bucket in lower fly zone river left where that guy went 1-10 as you said. Bet he didn't move much and still had his headlight on from squatting in that spot since 3:30 am. At 500 Cfs, the depth there can't be more than 3 feet. So in my opinion when you indie it with yarn and 8+ feet of line to the fly, he was effectively flossing dour hatchery fish. Tough to land when you snag em.

Fish that wire hole dilligently below school house, that is a moving area for fish coming up from Ellis cove. Next time your out there try below Ellis cove into the Bovines above trestle north. Or better come fish mid river sportsmans north and below. I'll be there hopefully this wednesday if the forecast holds out.

Low and slow when water temp 33. I fish mostly classics, but locally it's hard to beat a lil stonefly there, especially when they are hatching there regularly bout now. If its especially oily, egg sucking GP has been my ace in my wet sleeve.

Enjoy the river, the swing, and the opportunity to get out

I started out as slinky master of the church hole. I forever am great full to Spey pages for getting me to believe in the swing.
I may not get the numbers like I did before, but I sure have enjoyed the adventure and freedom of learning the river that Spey casting has brought to my game

"In a world that rolls ceaselessly underfoot, rocking and lurching like a subway car, i've found that the cork grip of a fly rod offers a pretty steady handhold."
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post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-28-2012, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you ...

To the PMs and replies, thank you.

PM Response > You hate losing flies, but I do intend to fish them, which means I am going to lose them. So be it. If I am in a known bad area, I do have some quick flies to lose.

There are a couple of issues, I dislike ...
  • If you keep, kill humanely quickly. Keeping them on a stringer alive for hours is wrong.
  • I do not object to CPing, but believe the harvesting of eggs is wrong. I see females killed and disposed of for the eggs only. CPers often use eggs, but not always.

Tie-Dye > Interesting, I was watching the guy across the way. There were no jerks, but I do believe at least one fish was fowl hook. I was surprised at how long his leader but thought maybe a boulder created a deep hole (then how do you get it drop in so fast). Never thought of flossing - will in the future.

When I first started, I tried to "swing" flies and was skunk. I went to slinkies and CPing, and caught fish. I eventually learnt, I can catch and I can land them. I often used small stones and caddis on fine tippet, and besides confidence, it taught me how much I can pressure the fish into shore. I guess, I progressed to the point, being skunked is okay, as long as I get some excercise, fresh air and time away from the office.

I also talked to Pat the following day at Altmar North Parking Lot - it was a good conversation. Yeah, I can see doing pre-spawn bass fishing, as he like to hit them off the surface.

I did not note, yes, there was some small hatches and yes, good suggestion about below the wire. In November, I got a tug between Bovines and Trestle, and it is a spot I enjoy to, but I never tried Sportsman. As far as crowds were concerned, the parking lot in Altmar was heavily parked, but Sportsman and Trestle were quiet. Pineville and Ellis activity ebb and flow. People were working the percentage for a steelhead at the top end.

I intend to hit the area once every 4-6 weeks. A form of fish theraphy. Given the audience I am speaking to, believeing people who read this are willing to share a pool, I am not to concern about divulging what I see.

David
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post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-28-2012, 01:50 PM
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Nice report! Thanks!

Good Luck
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post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-28-2012, 03:37 PM
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Nice report! I do like to swing flies at Paradise in UFZ.
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post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 08:40 AM
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Salmo-G. For perspective, The Salmon is a 13 mile, 60-80 foot wide (depending where you are) riffle pool in the top, ledge slate runs in the lower end that average 3-10 feet deep in most water flows. It has a moderate gradient so it pushes a bit even at low flows. It's dam release controlled and water levels can change frequently. It has high banks and can accomodate any flows from 185 to 3000 cfs and still fish well if you know the water. At the higher flow, it doesn't get wider, just deeper and dangerous. There are spots though.

annually 800,000 steelhead are stocked and as much as 35% of the returns are natural reproducers. returns are in the 100,000s although there is no actual research except creel studies and whate makes it back to the hatchery.

\so due to sheer numbers and due to the fact that you are just showing pods of fish a different presentation, you can be effective swinging flies on the pressured waters. named pools are always a bitch so sometimes you have to walk. most of our winter fish pack up in the upper river and wate for the hatchery to open in the spring. being so short, they can make it there quickly. the lower river is more like steelheading. the fly zones are a joke in my opinion but my feeling is, they keep alot of people away from my runs.

average days are 1 to 5 pulls. great days are over 10 pulls, happen once every 2 seasons or so, you have many pull-less days. Joy comes in the swing sand the knowledge that you're doing it right. We get labelled with the snob label alot but I don't care. I got the old "think you're better than me?" once from a snagger. I replied happily, "yes".

Swinging isn't a matter of have to or effectiveness, it is a matter of want to...on our waters

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post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 09:22 AM
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Shaq,said from the heart..Could'nt describe it better!!see you in April...frank
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post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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Fly fishing Zone

Shaq, Think you are right, the real value of the Fly-Fishing Zones is to concentrate the fisher-peope up river.
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post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaq View Post
Salmo-G. For perspective, The Salmon is a 13 mile, 60-80 foot wide (depending where you are) riffle pool in the top, ledge slate runs in the lower end that average 3-10 feet deep in most water flows. It has a moderate gradient so it pushes a bit even at low flows. It's dam release controlled and water levels can change frequently. It has high banks and can accomodate any flows from 185 to 3000 cfs and still fish well if you know the water. At the higher flow, it doesn't get wider, just deeper and dangerous. There are spots though.

annually 800,000 steelhead are stocked and as much as 35% of the returns are natural reproducers. returns are in the 100,000s although there is no actual research except creel studies and whate makes it back to the hatchery.

\so due to sheer numbers and due to the fact that you are just showing pods of fish a different presentation, you can be effective swinging flies on the pressured waters. named pools are always a bitch so sometimes you have to walk. most of our winter fish pack up in the upper river and wate for the hatchery to open in the spring. being so short, they can make it there quickly. the lower river is more like steelheading. the fly zones are a joke in my opinion but my feeling is, they keep alot of people away from my runs.

average days are 1 to 5 pulls. great days are over 10 pulls, happen once every 2 seasons or so, you have many pull-less days. Joy comes in the swing sand the knowledge that you're doing it right. We get labelled with the snob label alot but I don't care. I got the old "think you're better than me?" once from a snagger. I replied happily, "yes".

Swinging isn't a matter of have to or effectiveness, it is a matter of want to...on our waters
Don't know Shaq. Never fished the Salmon. Another wrote "from the heart". I see the same in his reply and always appreciate an anglers pasion for home waters. They are the types that conserve,improve,better.
I do know the Salmon was named after "Atlantic Salmon" and used to have native runs of Atlantics up to 40 #'s..........but, humans took for granted, the rest history.
CFS - flow really has little to do with swung fly quality. You can swing in Brookie creeks. There is so much more to a river,stream than vollume to include gradiance , width, etc. Through the course of a year locally I swing rivers that are from just huge to small creeks with single handers.

Nice to see the passion . I tend to do simular on my waters.
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post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 09:02 AM
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Raspberry-I know what you mean about that fly area. Last fall, just for a change(and because I was fishing with a friend who is a confirmed nympher)I decided to go back to "high sticking" which I had'nt done much of since the "90's. He wanted to go the the fly area so I did. I had an unusually busy day hooking up over 20 times (14 were steel) but people would'nt move out of their "places" to even allow you to play a fish. I had one guy in particular who had my line half wrapped around him whilst he stood there like a statue(never moved at all) Another time, the same guy almost got "boondoggled" by another fish I had on. Not everyone up there fishes that way but enough do that I instantly remembered why I gave up that water a long time back. It would have been fun if I'd had the space to actually fight the fish properly but I did'nt. It would have been even more fun had I had the space to actually swing a fly on a two hander. I do that lower down in the river these days but, even there, it can be difficult to find swinging room. There used to be a few decent spots for swinging flys lower down but they've gradually become known to the CP'ers and indie guys. More often than not you'll get low holed before you've finished a pass-or-guys will move in above you a bit and proceed to stand there like a bunch of "potted plants" thus locking up the stretch and ending any rotational wading that the swingers might be trying. I've come to the conclusion that, that's just Salmon River style fishing! I'm looking for real swinging water anytime I can find it but, with the state now pushing Atlantic Salmon reintroduction, it's only going to get more crowded(if that's even possible)and it certainly won't resemble anything like the traditional Atlantic Salmon fishing in the maritimes or Europe. Time to find another river, in my opinion.
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