Crooked river or Applegate river? - Spey Pages
 13Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 04:18 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Silverton Or
Posts: 258
Crooked river or Applegate river?

I would like to go to a different river to fly fish
You know you buy that fly fishing magazine and see all them nice fly fishing spots!!
I know I will get some he he's and ha ha's and what ever with this post!
I have never fished the crooked river and never fly fished the rogue river and never the Apple gate river.
So I would like to ask if anyone on this site has fished the Crooked river or the Apple gate river and if so? Where would a person go to one of these rivers to go spey fishing for the fist time??
yes I will send a email to a local fly shop for info! I did that once and now I keep getting emails from them all the time but hey once in a while I do buy from them so it is not all that bad!

But all in all the best advice is still from those that have been there and done it and if they are willing to share?
I am just getting burned out of the sandy and Clackamas rivers and the north fork Santiam river is dead right now!
any help or advice??

Bill
Merlin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 09:50 PM
JD
 
JDJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rogue River State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,605
The Rogue is also dead right now, I don't know about the Applegate. The problem with the Applegate is accessibility as it flows through a lot of private land. Just finding a pull off along the road to park is a challenge, let alone access to the river. You cannot fish from a floating devise. There are no real launch or take out sites. I've only seen a hand full of guys float the "gate" usually in small toons. And then there are the low bridges to contend with. You just have to spend a lot of time on that river to become familiar with it. It's a small river, a 12ft rod for a 6 wt line would be plenty sufficient, if not overkill, to cover it.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.

Last edited by JDJones; 03-12-2018 at 07:33 PM.
JDJones is offline  
post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Silverton Or
Posts: 258
That is the way the Sandy River is now a lot of what you could fish is now private property! you have the parks you can go to and there are spots on the lower part of the river but during the summer time forget it! It is packed with people.
There was a nice spot my Father use to take me to on the north side by Gordon creek but oxbow park had the county
take the boat ramp and road out and blocked it off

The Clackamas is the same way on the lower part more homes and private property! More so up around Estacada on the north side of the Clackamas! there use to be some VERY nice spot to fish in those sections
then you have the UPPER Clackamas that is now Closed for salmon and steelhead! I am not sure but I think ya can fly fish
for planter trout? last year I talked to the people at the bait store there in Estacada and the said the upper Clackamas
was close period!!

I went over to the coast by the nestucca river and it was almost like combat fishing, then you had the armada of drift boats
floating down river

I do not think ANY of Oregon's rivers had a good winter run of steelhead this year yet

ya think we can get a refund on are fishing license??

Last edited by Merlin; 03-11-2018 at 11:13 PM. Reason: missspeelll
Merlin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:37 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern BC
Posts: 904
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
ya think we can get a refund on are fishing license??
No, but you can stop buying licenses in future years and I wouldn't blame you.
Why would you be paying to the government after they have sold the river to private entities already? And then another question begs answering. How can they sell something that does not belong to them, has many users and finally after it was sold, you, the previous user/owner got nothing out of this deal?
Cougar is offline  
post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-11-2018, 11:57 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: N.Cal
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
No, but you can stop buying licenses in future years and I wouldn't blame you.
Why would you be paying to the government after they have sold the river to private entities already? And then another question begs answering. How can they sell something that does not belong to them, has many users and finally after it was sold, you, the previous user/owner got nothing out of this deal?
I get that you have some philosophical issues you are attaching to this, but I am curious just how much do you know about license fees in Oregon, of how ODFW operates? Do you have specific qualms about how they spend these funds? Do you approve of any of the things they do with said funds? Have you written or called ODFW with any of your concerns?

I’m not posting this as some sort of rah rah endorsement of ODFW, but I take strong exception to overly general grievances being leveled at very specific entities with little to no factual understanding of that which they are being critical of. If you do have specific issues with ODFW, addressing those specifically would be a lot more productive.
JB
Bob Budesa likes this.
Jason is offline  
post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Silverton Or
Posts: 258
Well I think no matter what State you live in and how much you have to pay for your fishing license
I do not think all those funds end up in the fish management system!
I am not sure of the percentage amount of $$$$ comes from the federal government and how much from the state
but I think most of it is federal $$$$$$$$
What you and I pay for are license is peanuts as to what is spent at the fish hatchery's
lets put it this way Brood Stock they can only take EGGS from brood stock ( Native wild fish!! ) am I right at this point??
now they take them there eggs and hatch them feed them cut the top fin off and POOOOOFFF you got them there planter trout!!! oh boy that is great for the kids and some of us older kids.
but wait a moment some of them there planter trout make it to an ocean and get bigger and oh hell im a bad boy here
them there fin clipped trout get big and want to come back to the river they came from and have sex yes I SAID it SEX!!
and pass on there genes to there babies!
Now people say hey those fin clipped fishy's can not and are not aloud to spawn and make there own BABIES why not I ask
because they have a clipped fin?? did they not come from brood stock???

All in All steelhead and salmon need all the help they can get right now on the west coast of USA and Canada!!!!!
Gill NETS galore get what 70 or 80 or 90% of these fish before they get into the rivers???

the amount you and I pay for are fishing license and we get is A peanut if we can find one and catch it

Guy's I just want to go to a river and fly fish a river you do not have to be a dam Mountain GOAT to get to a river
a river you do not have to worry about breaking an ankle or leg wading around in, and mostly a river that you do not have to wear combat gear to go fish in oh ya and a river close by
some place different

Thanks JD I was going to go down your way but if it is dead to I do not want to waist a trip

oh ya and sorry for the tirade was looking at the fish counts and they all suck

Bill
Merlin is offline  
post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 11:57 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern BC
Posts: 904
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
I get that you have some philosophical issues you are attaching to this, but I am curious just how much do you know about license fees in Oregon, of how ODFW operates? Do you have specific qualms about how they spend these funds?
No, and to me this is of almost no importance. The only useful purpose for the funds would be to pay conservation officer wages, so they can enforce the regulations on those who cannot regulate themselves. Anything else is inappropriate - hatcheries, habitat improvement projects etc ets....because they fix the wrongs of other industries.

So, yes it is a general grievance and yes, it is a philosophical one, but you can continue ignoring the reality and continue paying for your license while the access to your waters slowly disappears.

You know why that is? Because your government basically tells you that when you are born you have no land to live on unless you pay for it. So you are in debt right there. Animals? They cannot pay and for this reason they have no land and will slowly disappear together with your access to fishable water. But fish will not be in this water either, so not much to worry, I guess.
Cougar is offline  
post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 02:05 PM
Registered User
 
Botsari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,161
My favorite winter guide lives on the Applegate and guides it - he does it this month each year. He says it is nearly impossible to walk and wade there, and very tough with a boat. He gets away with it while stopping and swinging through a combination of where he goes, and knowing a lot of the people. I still hope to go with him at least once there, but my only previous attempt with a friend got blown out.

I don't think the Applegate is considered “navigable”. A lot of the smaller rivers in OR don’t allow boats to stop, or fishing from boats that are stopped. It’s bad enough on the “Navigable” rivers where you can legally be below the high water line since many land owners don’t get it, and will harass people. So knowing the law and regs is not always everything. There is one guy on the middle Rogue who occasionally threatens waders with a shotgun.

One time I was being guided on the Rogue and one of the homeowners came down and started giving us the stink eye. Our guide that day was a very fine female guide, and she was all sweetness and lightness with him, in spite of the fact that he added misogyny to his lack of understanding of the law. “Where is the guide? Your the guide? YOU’RE the guide!?” *shakes head* She was super nice to him, and took us off the run. I was more the one who would have stayed on principle - his house was about 100 yards from the river, and there was literally a 20 ft cliff behind us, but I guess the guides have to deal with them every day. She definitely was not going to stop fishing the run on future days. Better to be nice and then maybe some day the guy will be friendly and just come down to say “Hi” ... or maybe bring milk and crookies.

“Gravity is a harsh mistress!”, The Tick

Last edited by Botsari; 03-12-2018 at 02:36 PM.
Botsari is offline  
post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 06:20 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern BC
Posts: 904
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botsari View Post
Better to be nice and then maybe some day the guy will be friendly and just come down to say “Hi” ... or maybe bring milk and crookies.
Who wants to be fishing under these circumstances , always looking behind his back for some crazy land owner with a shot gun (or a jug of milk and cookies ).

It is not the peace and quiet a fisherman is looking for. A place like the one described is a total write off to me. I would move on.
Cougar is offline  
post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 07:21 PM
JD
 
JDJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rogue River State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar View Post
Who wants to be fishing under these circumstances , always looking behind his back for some crazy land owner with a shot gun (or a jug of milk and cookies ).

It is not the peace and quiet a fisherman is looking for. A place like the one described is a total write off to me. I would move on.
I'm not usually one to get up on the soap box but,,, I've been to those meetings discussing whether or not the Rogue is navigable in the legal definition. I've heard it from both sides. The land owner's deed says they own the land out to the middle of the river. Oregon law says the water, the fish & everything in the river belong to the people. If the river is declared navigable, the land owners property rights more or less end at the high water mark. And then the river changes course and screws the land owner out of a beach front strip of land twenty or more feet wide. Naturally the land owner is not going to be a happy camper when that happens.

But the real bugaboo is when the land owner has to tolerate a group of inconsiderate, disrespectful morons, who more or less set up camp on his beach, make a lot of noise, and leave behind empty beer cans & bait containers. Put yourself in the land owners shoes. Some event may be going on where he is entertaining guests, a daughter's wedding perhaps, Friends & family, on a holiday weekend. And he has a group of rowdies down there drinking and using fowl language & trashing the beach? One bad experience like that ruins it for everyone from that day on, with that guy.

The guide did the right thing. You can remind the property owner of the law, but exercise courtesy & respect. Apologize, if that's what it takes, and move on. We are out there to relax and have a good time on the river. If the tranquillity is broken by a confrontation, it will ruin your whole day. A hundred yard stretch of water is not worth it. Especially if you're looking down the wrong end of a shotgun.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
JDJones is offline  
post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 07:47 PM
JD
 
JDJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rogue River State of Jefferson
Posts: 3,605
There was a time, when I was much younger and very naive, I entertained the thought of a career in the Forest Service or Fish & Game. (when it was called fish game) I would have never made it. I feel for those who have studied that stuff & know the right thing to do, only to be handcuffed by politics & budgets. A senior license is a small price to pay in support of their gallant efforts, however futile they may be.

If you really want to make a difference, you need to join some advocacy group. Sad, but tht's what it has come down to.
steelhead23 and Botsari like this.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
JDJones is offline  
post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 08:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rogue River, Smith River
Posts: 451
Stay away from the Applegate. The newer landowners are complete degenerates and would rather pull out a gun than talk to someone who is obviously fishing. Also have known of a few encounters that landowners have damaged parked vehicles whose occupants they suspect are trespassing on their/their neighbors land. Why not go out to the Illinois? Tough fishing, but a truly remote destination surrounded by public lands.
Parera is offline  
post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 08:07 PM
Registered User
 
Botsari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,161
Very true, JD. It would be entirely fair and true to say that in my experience the VAST majority of those mis-behaving on the river are ON or IN it and below the high water line. And the vast majority of the landowners you meet in their backyards just want to chat you up! I think on both sides the main problem is the tendency of people to take (or give) offense at the drop of a hat. Seems to be catching these days.

I only fished the Illinois twice. I didn’t catch anything, but I SAW some real beasts in there.

“Gravity is a harsh mistress!”, The Tick
Botsari is offline  
post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-12-2018, 11:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rogue River, Smith River
Posts: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botsari View Post
Very true, JD. It would be entirely fair and true to say that in my experience the VAST majority of those mis-behaving on the river are ON or IN it and below the high water line. And the vast majority of the landowners you meet in their backyards just want to chat you up! I think on both sides the main problem is the tendency of people to take (or give) offense at the drop of a hat. Seems to be catching these days.

I only fished the Illinois twice. I didn’t catch anything, but I SAW some real beasts in there.
One favorite coastal haunt where landowners were indifferent about fisherman a decade ago have become miserable to float due to militant landowners; I notice the change as the old locals moved/retired/passed away and people from out of the area took residence with the expectation of having a "private" river in their backyard and your fishing experience doesn't even register as a legitimate reason to be in their yard.

Nevertheless it's always been kind of a crapshoot; obstinate landowners everywhere. I remember an instance about 18 years ago where a property owner extended a barb wire fence across the river to snare passing boats because the landowner believe in owning both banks they had the right to deny any and all public passage through "their" property. I place a lot of value in having a "relaxing, conflict free" day on the river and my fishing venues has reflected that in recent years. Yes, the small rivers are fun but I can't emphasize how much I value a carefree day on the river is to me.
Parera is offline  
post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 12:16 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern BC
Posts: 904
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJones
But the real bugaboo is when the land owner has to tolerate a group of inconsiderate, disrespectful morons, who more or less set up camp on his beach, make a lot of noise, and leave behind empty beer cans & bait containers. Put yourself in the land owners shoes.
I have heard that so many times. The landowner can report those to police and have police deal with them. Those same guys will not be stopped by the no-trespassing signs either, so this is only limiting us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJones
I would have never made it. I feel for those who have studied that stuff & know the right thing to do, only to be handcuffed by politics & budgets.
I had the same ideas, did not pursue them and feel the same way too. The Ministry of Environment (here in Canada) is a prostitute of the big business in the form of the Logging, Oil and Gas, Mining, Commercial fishing, Land development etc. They get funded by the Government with (supposedly) money coming from those businesses (no one will admit we, the fishermen pay taxes too) and when the Conservatives get in power, they cut off funding to this department (cut off their wings). But liberals will not be any better. Our government has accepted that we should be only a supplier of raw materials to China and our jobs are now mostly in the resource extraction sector.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJones
If you really want to make a difference, you need to join some advocacy group
I have doubts about some of those groups. A group based in the US asking for funding to defend my interests against Kinder Morgan and their pipeline expansion in BC?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parera
"Also have known of a few encounters that landowners have damaged parked vehicles whose occupants they suspect are trespassing
Good this is not happening here. If I know for sure the landowner did it, that landowner will be hooped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parera View Post
One favorite coastal haunt where landowners were indifferent about fisherman a decade ago have become miserable to float due to militant landowners;
One should be able to report such landowners and have police educate them about what they own. It may be good to politely remind them that they are not more than a pile of organic fertilizer meant to go in the land they think they own.
Indians probably had the right concept for wildlife, land and spirits before the white men came around and started selling them the same land that they already had, but interpreted to be common land, belonging to all.
Cougar is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Spey Pages forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cowlitz River, Clearwater River and Portland Casting Pond gathering Simon Hsieh Claves and Other Gatherings 25 04-20-2015 11:24 PM
applegate river in southern oregon ISC Archives ISC Archives 3 12-13-2001 01:30 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome