Overhead cast - narrow loops on the backcast - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Overhead cast - narrow loops on the backcast

Being playing around with overhead casting on grass (snow).
Any anyone have tips or video on how to get nice narrow loops on the backcast?

cheers
Wayne
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 04:31 PM
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EXACTLY the same as on the forward cast - line under tension, smooth linear acceleration to a firm stop. So if you know how to do a tight loop forward you already know. It is the same motion, but does use different muscles that have to learn separately. But I suppose there must be drills you could do that help to “trick” you into it. A lot of people actually tend to have BETTER loops on the backcast - a common thing, possibly related to trying too hard on the forward cast, that would probably take a psychologist to properly explain. Anyway this sometimes leads to the practice by many people of deliberately casting on a backcast (i.e. facing away from the target) in certain circumstances or when there are certain constraints.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 06:11 PM
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EXACTLY the same as on the forward cast - line under tension, smooth linear acceleration to a firm stop. So if you know how to do a tight loop forward you already know. It is the same motion, but does use different muscles that have to learn separately. But I suppose there must be drills you could do that help to “trick” you into it. A lot of people actually tend to have BETTER loops on the backcast - a common thing, possibly related to trying too hard on the forward cast, that would probably take a psychologist to properly explain. Anyway this sometimes leads to the practice by many people of deliberately casting on a backcast (i.e. facing away from the target) in certain circumstances or when there are certain constraints.
Great advice here. I use 11 foot switch rods for casting overhead with overhead lines on the beach. the abrupt stop cant be over emphasized; longer rods really want that tip to keep bending down; esp. in a back and forth tick tock of an overhead cast. Just dont "slam" your tip to the stop up high. just make it stop. a delicate balance but that was key for me anyway.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 11:16 PM
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"Stop" and narrow loops are fine, but in my opinion: Forming a "climbing loop" that is brought on by a slight "drift" after the stop (as opposed to rounded or pointed loop and just the stop) is more efficient. You can also form the "climbing" loop just the same with a firm stop and lowering the rod slightly on the forward cast.

Search spey pages or google Basic Spey and Two Handed Fly Rod Casting ( Vincent & Gawesworth) for more details.

Vic.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 08:07 PM
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I found when overhead casting a 2H(which I have not done a lot of) I was seeing the same issue. What I realized was the rod was drifting off plane. When forward casting I would pull with the lower hand as the top hand would drop. This would keep the rod tip travel on a flat plane rather than arching. On the back cast I was lifting the top hand and this would cause the tip to arch. What I did to attempt to correct it was to start with both hands higher allowing me to lower the rod slightly as the rod travels through the stroke keeping the tip on a flat as possible plane. Unfortunately I have not kept up with this but it certainly seemed to help with the short amount of time I was playing.

Dan

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-13-2019, 09:28 PM
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2019, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the responses... problem solved.
I was overloading the rod slightly on the backcast causing the tip to drop and the loop to open.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 02:00 PM
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Look at the video "Two Handed Rods in the Salt" by Andrew Moy
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 02:03 PM
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In my opinion and experience, spey rods aren't the best for overhead casting. Surf rods and switch rods are what you need. That's what they were designed to do.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-07-2019, 03:03 PM
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I think Andrew Moy has a good approach to overhead casting a 2 hander. I find a lower back cast circling up to an almost vertical forward cast works better than a same vertical plane back & forward cast. It's almost an elliptical rod/line path with more constant tension than a hard stop & pause backcast. Since I spend a couple months at Pyramid lake every winter I found this technique works for me when high gusty winds, fast sinking lines and repetitive long casts are the game. But try some variations to find what works for you since it's all fun.
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Last edited by Moonlighter; 12-20-2019 at 01:57 AM.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-19-2019, 11:51 AM
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Yes, Andrew is a good practicioner. It was neat; I got to chat about this with Lefty K years ago and he explained it using a similar anology that back and forth straight track becomes less effective when youre using a bottom hand, and also when you use other than floating lines.

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Last edited by speyday; Yesterday at 04:26 PM.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-19-2019, 01:49 PM
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If that is the video I’m thinking of then Moy is teaching the Belgian cast there. Works well with even with a full length spey rod. Honestly I also find this is the one I feel most comfortable with casting a two-hander overhead. So in the context of the OP this is getting to the line stretched out behind you by circumventing (only somewhat) the whole issue of a tight loop on the backstroke.

Not perhaps what people might think to use at first, as in the context of single-hand casting usually the speed is one of the main features emphasized. But slow it down a bit (there isn’t much choice with a long rod) and use a two-hander and it can be a super powerful cast, not just a utility cast.

But I usually tone it back a bit at Pyramid, a little more vertical, unless I’m wading by myself. Even though I know rationally that there is enough room, doing a side-handed backstroke makes me nervous with someone on a ladder right next to me.

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Last edited by Botsari; 12-19-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-23-2019, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
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AAnother Overhead Question.-
What are the casting tips/techniques to avoid the fly touching the water when false casting the overhead cast?
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-24-2019, 01:28 AM
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AAnother Overhead Question.-
What are the casting tips/techniques to avoid the fly touching the water when false casting the overhead cast?
Aim higher than you think you need to, both front and back.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-26-2019, 01:55 PM
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In my opinion and experience, spey rods aren't the best for overhead casting. Surf rods and switch rods are what you need. That's what they were designed to do.
Agree here, i went to 11 footers a whole other ball game; a better one for me.

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