Casting in wind help - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Casting in wind help

Just returned from a trip and encountered quite a bit of wind. I have cast in wind of course, and probably like many, deal with it with various degrees of success. I did have issues with the following specific situation and welcome any suggestions:

River left and dealing with a up river wind that was also quartering (from the middle of the river) in quite a bit. Of course all left shoulder casts were off the table (snake roll and double spey). I used primarily a snap-t and occasionally a Single Spey off the right shoulder. I was using heads in the 27'-32' range and 15' light tips.


I had several challenges:

Anchor placement: The up wind was blowing my anchor well up stream.
Avoiding the fly on the snap-t lift!!!: The combination of the up river and quartering in wind would shoot the fly dangerously close to me on the snap and it would be coming up river very fast. I have never had to duck so much! This occurred even as I tried to do the snap more out in the middle of the river.
Wind blowing my forward cast up river: Really, the least of my problems, and most likely was the result of poor anchor placement which decreased the power of the forward cast and sometimes just starting the path of the cast too high.

I did try to not over power my casts and keep the rod tip lower in the forward casts. I think the biggest problem I had was avoiding the fly on the snap t and anchor placement due to the wind. Are there any adjustments I can consider in the snap t set up and lift with a wind that is blowing in and up river?

I did try a few Pokes to relocate everything and probably should have worked on that more. I was also thinking maybe I should have used the Single Spey more to lift and place the fly up stream in a safer manner and then used a poke to get everything lined up.


Appreciate any thoughts.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 08:35 PM
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I know what you mean. River left, upstream wind quartering toward you. A snap-t becomes dangerous because the wind is blowing the fly toward you and it is hard to control. A cast that I use often in that situation is, from the dangle, lift the rod tip in a continuous motion so that it arcs behind your head and in a continuous motion bring the rod tip around your right side in a downward ark with the tip of the rod stopping just above the water a little downstream and in front of you. The position that you end up in is about the same as if you had done a snap-t with no wind. The wind quartering upstream toward you actually enhances the cast and keeps the line and fly away from you. From that point on you would finish the cast just as you would a snap-t. I learned that cast in a video somewhere and it works really well. You can practice it with no wind but make sure your rod tip is well behind your head. The important thing is once you start your lift you must commit to the cast with a continuous motion until your rod tip is stopped in front of and downstream of you. It is a fun cast to make and learn and another good one for the quiver. I hope I explained that clearly enough.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:34 AM
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On river left I would have been casting off my right shoulder. Especially with an upstream wind. River left is my comfort side, Do you normally cast off your left side? Your asking for trouble in this scenario.

Dan
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Which way to the river?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 09:12 AM
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I have a video of the cast to which RLG refers, and if Admin can tell me what security token is missing (?) is missing, I'll post it. He describes it fairly accurately, and I've used it successfully many times.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply and suggestion! I'll practice this and see if I can make it work.

John
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, I was casting off my right shoulder. It was not possible to do any left shoulder casts with that wind. I had a message from a member that also suggests using more of a snap Z set up rather than a circle snap set up, though with the longer heads and tips I was using at least for me a snap z is more difficult. The list behind the head suggested in a couple of the replies sounds like it may be the best solution in that in your face wind. Thanks!
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Bob

Sent you a spey page email with my email address. Let me know if you did not get it. Would love to see the video. John
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:21 PM
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Been meaning to practice that cast, which I think of as a “behind-the-back snap t”, for a while. Want to try it at least a few times without a hook on the end! One of the lakes I go to is in a notoriously windy part of CA - near Pacheco pass which commonly has wind advisories! That is where I got over my fear of casting in headwinds and developed whatever technique I have for “dealing” with high winds - or rather for just “getting by”.

If style points are not important then what I usually do in very heavy quartered-upstream winds is lift just enough line off the water and sidearm everything upstream - from there all problems are solved as you can do a nice easy poke. One bare step more “elegant” (leaving things still a bit sloppy looking, but highly effective) is to do what Dec Hogan said they originally called a “triple spey” - really do the upstream flip all the way and then quicly do a “double spey” off the upstream shoulder.

But for when “pretty girls might be watching” - not surprisingly there are awfully few of these situations - that behind-the-back snap t might be just the ticket.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:22 PM
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You won't like it but one answer would just be a shorter line. Easier anchor placement and with more mass you have more control. Plus it would punch through the wind better on your final cast.

I try and stay away form the Skagit line as much as possible but living in the Gorge we get some really windy days. You can either fight a longer line all day or go to the Skagit and fish more comfortably.

If you do want to stick with the scandi length lines then I believe you are right going with the poke more. You could also flip a mid-river mend in after you strip in the running line so the fly isn't coming form straight below you.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLG View Post
A cast that I use often in that situation is, from the dangle, lift the rod tip in a continuous motion so that it arcs behind your head and in a continuous motion bring the rod tip around your right side in a downward ark with the tip of the rod stopping just above the water a little downstream and in front of you. The position that you end up in is about the same as if you had done a snap-t with no wind. The wind quartering upstream toward you actually enhances the cast and keeps the line and fly away from you. From that point on you would finish the cast just as you would a snap-t. I learned that cast in a video somewhere and it works really well. You can practice it with no wind but make sure your rod tip is well behind your head. The important thing is once you start your lift you must commit to the cast with a continuous motion until your rod tip is stopped in front of and downstream of you. It is a fun cast to make and learn and another good one for the quiver. I hope I explained that clearly enough.
This is demonstrated in a vid someplace from the OPST guys. Their line/tip combinations are short, and I think like Yard said, in that wind a shorter skagit-ish would be easier to control.

The other thing about that hard a wind is it will move your line on its own. You can drive it, or you can loft it and to an extent, kind of kite sail it into position. with the cast RLG mentions above, if you lift it gently, guide your rod tip up and behind, the wind will drive the slow moving line upstream of you. Then wrap your tip around from behind, around your upstream/upwind side, and bring your tip down as if you'd done a slo-mo snap or circle spey. With conditions like that, consistency would be really hard, so I suspect you may need to lift into a poke to really get aligned. And keep in mind what the wind will did with that one movement to- you may need to keep the movement pretty vertical, as the wind is going to push even that quick loop upstream. Not a pretty cast in those conditions, but this is fishing, not spey-o-rama. I find challenging conditions, really fun, though best experienced with your hood snugged on, and a good pair of glasses. And maybe a second armored hood.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 12:54 PM
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This might be the one you are talking about. I’ve seen 2 or 3 of these, but I believe this was the first one I saw. Perhaps the “original”?

I tend to agree that when the wind is so bad that you really HAVE to do this cast it might be bad enough not to depend on ANY special technique to work consistently - better one you can easily edit after everything goes to hell. But you could probably turn this one into an effective poke setup as well.



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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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I could not open the video, but went to the OPST site and watched it. Very cool cast and more importantly, I think this would have helped solve the problem of the wind blowing the anchor into me as well as upriver too far.

RLG and Bob, is this cast you were thinking of? Sounds similar.


Yardsale, you are right a Skagit head and shorter tip all would have made it easier under those conditions and there definitely were moments when I wished I had them with me. The mid river mend would also have helped keep the snap out farther.


All good tips!

Thanks everyone.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 05:06 PM
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Humm. It is just a YouTube video. Maybe you need a plug-in or something on your platform. Another thing you can try, if it is even visible on your platform, is if you click on the “YouTube” at the bottom right of the video display in the speypages post it should take you to that video on YouTube directly. I think the imbedded video works ok for most people but going to YouTube (or whatever the original source link for the video e.g. vimeo etc.) should generally solve that problem.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 09:37 PM
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Put, that is the cast I was describing. I would suggest practicing with yarn tied on instead of a fly. It really only took me 10 minutes to start making the cast work. The line just follows the tip of your rod around. I have never once hit myself with the fly when making this cast. Takes a little experimenting to get the anchor to land in the right position. Good luck!
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-09-2019, 05:09 AM
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The rewind thingy is a cool new cast, thanks for sharing.

Since I did not know of its existence, my choice in the described situation has been a single spey with a really flat backstroke and a radical change in direction (say 90 degrees). Keep that V-loop tight and fast. And a flat forward stroke as well, as mentioned in the OP, with rod tip dropped to water immediately after the stop.

Like an unconscious answer to a question that has been troubling me for long, or a sudden opportunity to achieve something valuable I had almost given up on, the fish is there.
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