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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-04-2019, 07:09 PM
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In all reality, you can just do one coil with mono if needed, itís super easy to do, and you are all set.

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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys this has been really helpful, It seems I'm not too far of the mark.
I have done and still do a fair bit of practice and 'Linespeed Jedi ' vids have helped me a lot with technique.
I think I will give mono a try, the other thing that has me interested is mid belly lines, as from some brief research they seem to be pleasurable to cast with and offer that bit extra too.
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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 09:38 AM
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Thanks guys this has been really helpful, It seems I'm not too far of the mark.
I have done and still do a fair bit of practice and 'Linespeed Jedi ' vids have helped me a lot with technique.
I think I will give mono a try, the other thing that has me interested is mid belly lines, as from some brief research they seem to be pleasurable to cast with and offer that bit extra too.
Timís videos are great! Helped me a ton as well.

You make known to me the path of life;
in your presence there is fullness of joy;
at your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

PSALM 16:11
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 02:39 PM
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My take on this

The easiest & cheapest thing you can do is use George Cooks method for dummies line management scheme. That is, strip in all of the running line, hold that big loop in the middle & be done with it.

Another thing you can do is experiment with different heads/ sink tips/leaders. The goal being, enough weight to get a good load out of the rod, (let the rod do the work so you don't have to) and complete turnover at the end of the cast. That, and line speed will get you there.

Keep in mind, the rod, line, tip leader and fly, are a system. They must all work in harmony with each other for maximum performance. I am not familiar with your rod or the Rage line but, I would not hesitate increasing the grain weight of the head, say 30 or so grains at a time, until I felt like I had gone over a little bit. Then back down to the next size below that. (watch for heads in the classifieds)

Matching sink tips to the line Is also critical. too heavy & the line will not be able to turn it over on long casts. Too light & it will not be able to turn over the fly. Of course, this all depends on the size of the fly.

Longer belly lines require more room for the D-loop. Shorter belly lines, you have to shoot more line to get the distance. Tight loops will get you line speed. When the line runs out of energy & stops unrolling, gravity takes over & it will fall to the water.

That being said, 80ft is a respectable cast, the next 20 ft are fine tuning, everything, the cast as well as the system. Then too, there will be places that although you may be able to cast far enough to drop a fly way over there, the currents may not allow you to fish it effectively from where you are standing.

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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 03:47 PM
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The easiest & cheapest thing you can do is use George Cooks method for dummies line management scheme. That is, strip in all of the running line, hold that big loop in the middle & be done with it.

Another thing you can do is experiment with different heads/ sink tips/leaders. The goal being, enough weight to get a good load out of the rod, (let the rod do the work so you don't have to) and complete turnover at the end of the cast. That, and line speed will get you there.

Keep in mind, the rod, line, tip leader and fly, are a system. They must all work in harmony with each other for maximum performance. I am not familiar with your rod or the Rage line but, I would not hesitate increasing the grain weight of the head, say 30 or so grains at a time, until I felt like I had gone over a little bit. Then back down to the next size below that. (watch for heads in the classifieds)

Matching sink tips to the line Is also critical. too heavy & the line will not be able to turn it over on long casts. Too light & it will not be able to turn over the fly. Of course, this all depends on the size of the fly.

Longer belly lines require more room for the D-loop. Shorter belly lines, you have to shoot more line to get the distance. Tight loops will get you line speed. When the line runs out of energy & stops unrolling, gravity takes over & it will fall to the water.

That being said, 80ft is a respectable cast, the next 20 ft are fine tuning, everything, the cast as well as the system. Then too, there will be places that although you may be able to cast far enough to drop a fly way over there, the currents may not allow you to fish it effectively from where you are standing.

Man am I sick of people saying long bellies canít be cast in tight. In this video is a 70ft head my ankles right up against rocks that if your line is anywhere near your line is going nowhere other than being stuck there in those rocks. This is not a one off I fish tight like this all time. The splash at the end is my extra fast poly leader turned over and splashing down. Itís all a matter of controlling where your anchor is.
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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 04:58 PM
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I was wonder when you were going to pull that "Ace" out of your sleeve.... Well played sir

Grant
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 05:46 PM
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Man am I sick of people saying long bellies can’t be cast in tight. In this video is a 70ft head my ankles right up against rocks that if your line is anywhere near your line is going nowhere other than being stuck there in those rocks. This is not a one off I fish tight like this all time. The splash at the end is my extra fast poly leader turned over and splashing down. It’s all a matter of controlling where your anchor is.
That's tight! Nice cast too. Weird wiggle loop there. I'm not sure I have seen that before but it sure got out there.

Dan
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Which way to the river?
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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 05:51 PM
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That's tight! Nice cast too. Weird wiggle loop there. I'm not sure I have seen that before but it sure got out there.

Dan
Itís just a single spey if your referring to the wiggle in the line on its way out the heavy poly is right off the end of a regular line not cut back so poop happens but as can be plainly seen it turns over in the end and so does the fly
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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 06:52 PM
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That's tight! Nice cast too. Weird wiggle loop there. I'm not sure I have seen that before but it sure got out there.

Dan
It’s just a single spey if your referring to the wiggle in the line on its way out the heavy poly is right off the end of a regular line not cut back so poop happens but as can be plainly seen it turns over in the end and so does the fly <img src="http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/images/SpeyPages_2015/smilies/tango_face_wink.png" border="0" alt="" title="Wink" class="inlineimg" />
Yes, that's what I was referring to. Didn't look like it affected the cast at all, just never seen it before. It was great to watch.

Dan
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 07:04 PM
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Slow motion shows everything lol. Not an uncommon occurrence in a cast actually.

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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 07:50 PM
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OP: sorry for the thread hi-jack but this is kinda interesting ...


Bruce,

JDJones is fundamentally correct. You do need more room for the D-loop for casting a longer belly. In your case, you just created more room by anchoring the single spey cast farther out in front.

I do the same by practice casting from a dock while squatting on my butt, mind you with relatively short heads. Comes in handy when sitting or kneeling by the water with a rock wall behind you.

That was a seriously impressive cast. That said, I would be more tempted by long rods and long belly lines when I get to watch somebody dead-drifting dry flies with a 9/10 weight 15 foot rod or somebody using their long rod to fish flies like a talented spoon & jig angler.

-Erik
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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-05-2019, 10:42 PM
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OP: sorry for the thread hi-jack but this is kinda interesting ...


Bruce,

JDJones is fundamentally correct. You do need more room for the D-loop for casting a longer belly. In your case, you just created more room by anchoring the single spey cast farther out in front.

I do the same by practice casting from a dock while squatting on my butt, mind you with relatively short heads. Comes in handy when sitting or kneeling by the water with a rock wall behind you.

That was a seriously impressive cast. That said, I would be more tempted by long rods and long belly lines when I get to watch somebody dead-drifting dry flies with a 9/10 weight 15 foot rod or somebody using their long rod to fish flies like a talented spoon & jig angler.

-Erik

Sorry but I cast like that with the anchor in front all the time ample room or not..... as it is the most efficient way to cast
Jd said it can’t be done I disagree and say it can and prove it with video and you say jd is correct and I’m just doing it right...or wrong....but it works...... still not quite sure what your saying to be truthful.
Long story short JD and I have had this discussion on this forum many times and I grow weary of it.
Those that can do ...... those that can’t ..... talk about it on the internet
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 12:06 AM
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I had a kind of epiphany a few years back that I could not only cast longer lines in ideal situations but tight situations as well and that in some ways they could actually be better at dealing with certain constraints. Admittedly I had to kind of get roped into using them this way out of my initial comfort zone. This was with a head that was only slightly under 60’ but I could see the applicability to even longer lines. Hopefully some day I can work my way up to those lengths but I no longer doubt the practical utility of using longer lines as general purpose tools. People have been dealing with such situations for many, many years before there even were short heads.
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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 01:13 AM
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A few comments, several of which have already been made, but to emphasize:

70-80ft with a short head like a Rage is very reasonable, and, will cover many if not most practical fishing situations in my neck of the woods. From watching a lot of casters, my observation is, with that type of setup, 80ft is about the maximum consistent distance for most casters, probably less by my definition of 'consistent' which would be : 85% + of casts straight and fully turning over, off either shoulder, on both sides of the river.

Most people over-estimate how far they actually cast. Go try it. Get a friend and mark out distances on a pond, have the friend spot five or ten of your casts, compare to your estimates. You may think you know your distance from adding running line + rod + line + leader, but, you'll be surprised how much distance you lose from slack, from casts that are not quite turned over, and from casts that are not perfectly straight. So don't believe what you read on the internet about how far other people are casting. Every so often we'll get someone on here that claims to be casting 120ft with a six-weight switch rod and a short skagit after a month of solo practice. Not very likely.

You want to add distance, my advice would be, #1, find a good instructor. At every level of expertise, the most important thing is attention to the fundamentals of casting. Everything else is secondary. I've been doing this ten years now, have had the great privilege of learning at the knees of some of the best, I still don't fully have the fundamentals down. Most people, past a certain point, will benefit greatly from external input. Videos and solo practice will only get you so far.

#2. Yes, if you want to reach over 100' consistently, going to a longer head is going to help. That is partly due to equipment. What hasn't been mentioned is longer heads are going to be more revealing of casting faults, faults you may not have realized you had. It is a way to encourage your skill level up. Now see #1.

#3, And, also, yes, changing your running line can give you more potential distance, at some point it's a must, but from where you are IMO it is a distant #3. No reason not to experiment with it, but don't fall into the trap of chasing equipment fixes to technique deficiencies.
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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 02-06-2019, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
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Fishman26 that's a beautiful cast
Beautiful scenery too

Well got some Berkly big game 40lbs mono and have been practising.
It's made a difference certainly enough for the pool I'm thinking of.

So I think I'll give it a try this spring, it's not an elegant setup but if I can hit the honey hole it will be worth it.
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