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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-07-2008, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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V loop questions

Has anyone got any vloop shots at maximum loop formation
from an overhead point of view ?

Is it just possible that....

A v loop isn't actually a V at all ?

Ok, let me explain.

I cast many other styles, surfcasting, etc, etc and from years
of research we discovered that a wider rod arc makes the sinker
run wider. This in turn makes it go faster.

So, is it possible that the V loop is really a D loop side on.
From a visual perspective it would look like a V but in reality
its just a much bigger flatter D loop that is generated by

a) a wider rod arc
b) higher line speed as a consequence of (a)
c) deeper rod loading and bigger possible belly
as a consequence of (a) and (b) ?

I could be wrong, but one of the very very best V loop shots
on the web resides on Mr Mackenzie's site.

A BIG loop seen side on BUT....

with the lifting of the rod to make the forward stroke the
V could be in fact just the flatter D loop showing us the tip
of the rod has changed plane.

I can see how V loops in the forward stroke are achieved through
a straight tip movement but...
In no place I have seen does a loop formation ever have a straight
tip line.

Please, can someone explain this.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-07-2008, 04:31 PM
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You are right, the low flat pick up creates in essence a horizontal d-loop. However, when the hands are pushed up and the almost vertical forward stroke begins the loop is compressed into the v-loop we see. Here is a rear view of Gordon Armstrong practicing at Spey-O-Rama http://s447.photobucket.com/albums/q...BehindView.flv

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-07-2008, 05:10 PM
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I have a friend who has a shoulder issue and his cast is never 90 degrees vertical. When he tightens up his loops and makes his D-Loop more V shaped, his stroke is even more off of vertical.

- David
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-07-2008, 05:58 PM
 
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Interestingly enough, a D. or a V oftentimes are a result of how you use/load your tip in the forward stroke! The closer the D your line loop is going, the stronger the tip has been in the cast..... thus giving a higher linespeed!, and much more energy to the turnover capacity to your flyline....... ;-) ... Maybe....
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-07-2008, 06:56 PM Thread Starter
 
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ok, cheers guys.
trying to get my head around it.

The weather has been so bad this season I decided to sharpen
up the skills.
I've had too in fact. I forget the last day/night we fished when it wasn't
close to gale force winds.
The problem being of course, casting whilst fishing.
they don't work in essence do they. I suppose when the Bass get
harder in the winter is the time to practice the casting.
Trouble being, I need those skills now.

Big D-Loops and open front loops just aren't cutting through the wind.
Often, we need to use open shot loops when we are carrying weighted
flies like clousers but recently incoming tides have seen wind with tide and
the surface layers running MUCH faster than 6" down. We are talking
F5/F6 averages for weeks now !!

I was assuming a V loop would provide more shape and power to load
the rod against winds that are dead set on collapsing anything close to shapely.
Honestly, having to be so aggresive sometimes that the anchor goes and
stays airborne whilst the loop is bowed inside out with the wind.

This is obviously no good whatsoever.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-07-2008, 08:04 PM
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All of the top distance spey casters use long belly lines (though they treat them like giant shooting heads... 100' heads and LOTS of shooting line). In spite of the term V-loop the loops that result are by no means narrow - rather they are quite large and open. I remember the first time I saw Scott MacKenzie and Gordon Armstrong I was amazed with firstly how much line stick they had in their anchors and the huge loops they threw... and the distances they got!

It seems that the narrow loops associated with short heads just don't carry the energy as far as the more open loops of the long belly lines. This is actually true with short heads as well, you will get a lazer-tight loop if you play with the overhang and get the running line just the right distance out of the rod tip... however, if you pull the running line just back inside the tip you will get a more open loop - that will go further.

Tight lines - tyler.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-11-2008, 09:57 AM
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Not to say I'm a great caster

...but are these competition lines available commercially to mere mortals like me?

I understand it's quite a secretive crowd. But the best I can get for my 15' rod (top grain window of 850 grain) would be something like the Rio grandspey 8/9 at 80'. Another 20' length while keeping under this 850 window would be an interesting line to cast.

Just trying to see how thin the air feels like in the competition stratosphere.

Yes, certainly this has more of a casting appeal than being a fishing tool. But then, the more I get into it, the more enjoyment I get in casting for the enjoyment of casting.

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Last edited by sushiyummy; 09-11-2008 at 10:00 AM. Reason: Spelling
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 03:34 AM
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The Carron Jetstream Long Belly has a head length of 85 feet total line length of ~150feet ...

... the Carron Jetstream 95 has a head length of 95 feet and a total line length of ~180 feet

... You're Born, You Fish, You Die.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 11:21 AM
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Anyone with Carron lines going to MI clave

Any one with these lines going to MI Clave- I would appreciate if you bring them for trying.

I already got PM'd by another member as to his bringing his lines around 850 grain, long belly heads (Mastery and GS).

Conservation is nothing more than the fight to save ourselves from ourselves, work that can only be done by ourselves.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-17-2008, 05:34 PM
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Have you checked with Poppy at Redshed, Aaron at River Run, or any of the other sponsor shops? Poppy an Aaron both have demo lines that are available to try. Spend a few bucks for shipping and you'll have them in time for the Speyfest.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-18-2008, 12:34 AM
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V loop questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushiyummy View Post
Any one with these lines going to MI Clave- I would appreciate if you bring them for trying.

I already got PM'd by another member as to his bringing his lines around 850 grain, long belly heads (Mastery and GS).
I will have a bunch of Carrons with me.
Speyladdie

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-18-2008, 01:07 AM
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I have a Grand Spey 9/10 900grain on a reel that I will bring and a couple of XLT's on their spools that I can throw into the truck.
Terry

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-18-2008, 09:47 AM
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Thanks

Thanks Gents for your generosity.

I'll make sure I wear my Billybob name tag in Painter masking tape fashion.

How would I know who you are as well and will your reels be marked with basic info?

Conservation is nothing more than the fight to save ourselves from ourselves, work that can only be done by ourselves.

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