Skagit Magic Part II: Harnessing the Magic - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-17-2006, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Skagit Magic Part II: Harnessing the Magic

For Part II of our Skagit line report, go to the Golden Gate Angling and Casting Club web site and download the July 2006 Bulletin. [Part I is in the June Bulletin.]

http://www.ggacc.org/p/p.aspx?mlid=5
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-17-2006, 11:40 PM
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Bob, thanks for the ideas in both Skagit articles and the work behind them. You've done a great job of pulling things together and encouraing those of us with something less than a wealth of experience to experiment and push the envelope with different lines and tips.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 11:43 AM
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Bob Pauli re part 2 "Managing the Magic of Skagit Spey Lines"

Interesting reading, Bob.

Your section on the cheaters may explain why some of us get good to excellent results with our lighter and shorter rods, under 13', when we use the Outbound WF Floaters. The head on those lines is 37.5 feet long. So we have a built in 10' floating cheater.

I have noticed that with my Sage 5120 and the Outbound, that with the Rio Sinking leaders it works better with the 7' leaders instead of the 12' leaders. When I use the Skagit 450, it does great with the 12' leaders. My Meiser 5/6 Switch rod requires the shorter sinking leaders and does better with a 10' regular leader versus my standard 15' leader with the OBs.

My Sage 6126 with the OB does fine with a Rio 12' sinking leader, and my TCR 9129 with the Skagit 650, does better with the 12' sinking leaders than the standard 15' leaders. Of course as you know the TCR can handle any Skagit and sinking tip Rio makes. It is just easier to cast with the sinking leaders 12' versus longer leaders. A 12' tip of T14 is easier to cast than tips from 15' to 20'.

I'm looking forward to trying my TCR 9129 with the Skagit 450. If it works okay, I can probably get deeper with the 450 versus the 650 due to the smaller diameter of the floating 450 head. Also, my sinking tips should get deeper with the Outbounds versus the 450 Skagit due to the smaller diameter of the OBs at the tip.

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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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Dave,
Surprisingly, there is less than four inches change in fishing depth with a sink tip across the range of Skagit lines, from 450 to 750.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-18-2006, 04:45 PM
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Could we get you guys to compare the Outbounds with the Skagits re tip depth.

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Originally Posted by Bob Pauli
Dave,
Surprisingly, there is less than four inches change in fishing depth with a sink tip across the range of Skagit lines, from 450 to 750.
Could we get you guys to compare the Outbounds with the Skagits re tip depth re fishing depth for the lighter rods.

Bob, I need to get some info from you as an engineer re what really happens when we use two handed rods in a boat versus one handed rods, to post a question on the board re two handed rods in a boat versus one handed rods with big fish on the fly.

I want to post a question for the engineers and rods makers as there appears to be about as much urban/rural legend about this issue as with the Skagit rods and brown and green Sage Spey Rods.

I had an earlier post with a few good replies in the section below, fishing with the two handed rods. If you have time, you might review the question and replies.

Please give it a thought and get back to re how to phrase the question.

Dave

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 02:19 AM
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...............no offense to Bob,but just because someone is an engineer doesn't mean their interpretation of an issue is correct.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 10:04 AM
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Actually, my engineer/project manager son started this discussion/argument.

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...............no offense to Bob, but just because someone is an engineer doesn't mean their interpretation of an issue is correct.
Actually, my engineer/project manager son started this discussion/argument, weeks ago. He is an industrial engineer with the business background necessary to take on and complete large heavy construction projects. He is an excellent fisher and prefers one handed rods with the exception of shad fishing and steelhead, where he uses his classic Sage 9140-3. He is in the camp that any rod over 9' in a boat is not good.

Bob is a Mechanical Engineer and an excellent fisher.

Fly rods have been classified as a Class I lever. That was with the one handed rods. When we get into the two handed rods both long and short, a lot of factors get thrown into the mix. Kush, JoeG, MJYP, Sean and Max have brought up some interesting factors/comments/questions in the thread below.

My last physics class was in 1956/57 as a freshman in college. However, a fighting grip on a rod or a two handed grip on a switch rod makes these rods different levers than the Class I lever, the one handed fly rods obviously fall in.

One of the reasons I queried Bob, was how to even phrase a correct question for a thread to discuss this question/issue.

Due to multiple shoulder, bicep head and rotator cuff injuries , I can't one hand cast a one handed rod over a light 4 weight. Even that rod hurts my shoulder and torn bicep. Shooting and double hauling with a heavy single handed rod is not a possibility. I will be Tarpoon fishing this September, and I need a rod with two grips to be able to cast the fly where the Tarpoon are. So I'm trying to search out what is right and what is urban legend re rods in boats fishing for big and strong fish.



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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 01:39 PM
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Book the trip. Take your two handed rods. Let the guide deal with it. At $400+ for a days fishing, it's his problem.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-19-2006, 05:49 PM
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JD, I will be fishing with a friend and his inlaws

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Book the trip. Take your two handed rods. Let the guide deal with it. At $400+ for a days fishing, it's his problem.
I don't want to cause problems nor look like a California flake if I should hook a good size fish.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 10:51 AM
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Well,,,,

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Originally Posted by Grampa Spey
I don't want to cause problems nor look like a California flake if I should hook a good size fish.
After all you are from California. Really though, just explain the problem to the guide and let it go at that.

I fish because the voices inside my head tell me to.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spey machine
just because someone is an engineer doesn't mean their interpretation of an issue is correct.
It doesn't? My wife has used that line on me, too. I just don't know if it is true, I will work on a spread sheet and let you know!
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-20-2006, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampa Spey
I will be Tarpoon fishing this September, and I need a rod with two grips to be able to cast the fly where the Tarpoon are. So I'm trying to search out what is right and what is urban legend re rods in boats fishing for big and strong fish.
http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/s...ad.php?t=23050
Grampa, SINGLE HAND rod length in excess of 9 feet in a boat, and in fighting a big fish is a "handicap". Remember that for ages the designers of single hand rods stiffened the butt, left the middle alone, and lightened the tip as the rod lengthened. So tips folded easily, and rods would often explode at the mid section butt junction. Sage RPLXi were interesting because they worked stiffer up through the middle and then the tip just folded! This meant the tip essentially "got out of the way" in a big battle by following the fish while the mid and butt took and gave pressure much better. A little weird at first to cast, but after the hookup, awesome!

My limited experience with switch rods is that the tips and mids are much stiffer than a comparable single hand rod. For flats fishing that means there shouldn't be a handicap. The only real handicap with a 10 to 10.5 switch rod is if you are fishing water more than 6 feet deep. With longer rods you really are much less efficient pumping ironing boards up from the depths, and when you got a big saltwater fish on, 10 feet is the depths

I wouldn't use one, but if one makes the difference between being able to fish, and not, it won't be the handicap a 9.5 or 10 foot single hand rod would be. I've fished a 9.5 foot 10wt scott sts (still own it, great rod) out of a boat for tuna. It was obviously less efficient than the 8foot 8inch heliply rods I had in the boat. Yeah, I worked for a Scott shop at the time

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-22-2006, 03:12 PM
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Thanks, Phil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster
Grampa, SINGLE HAND rod length in excess of 9 feet in a boat, and in fighting a big fish is a "handicap". Remember that for ages the designers of single hand rods stiffened the butt, left the middle alone, and lightened the tip as the rod lengthened. So tips folded easily, and rods would often explode at the mid section butt junction. Sage RPLXi were interesting because they worked stiffer up through the middle and then the tip just folded! This meant the tip essentially "got out of the way" in a big battle by following the fish while the mid and butt took and gave pressure much better. A little weird at first to cast, but after the hookup, awesome!

My limited experience with switch rods is that the tips and mids are much stiffer than a comparable single hand rod. For flats fishing that means there shouldn't be a handicap. The only real handicap with a 10 to 10.5 switch rod is if you are fishing water more than 6 feet deep. With longer rods you really are much less efficient pumping ironing boards up from the depths, and when you got a big saltwater fish on, 10 feet is the depths

I wouldn't use one, but if one makes the difference between being able to fish, and not, it won't be the handicap a 9.5 or 10 foot single hand rod would be. I've fished a 9.5 foot 10wt scott sts (still own it, great rod) out of a boat for tuna. It was obviously less efficient than the 8foot 8inch heliply rods I had in the boat. Yeah, I worked for a Scott shop at the time
Good points. Thanks for pointing out the difference re flats and deeper water. Even on our rivers and Delta, a nice striper caught in the flats or shallow water is lot easier to handle with the Switch rods. I had to really work on a couple that were in deep water and went down past 12 feet. One biggie at 20' was a standoff, the fish eventually won.

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