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triple density salmon logic lines

4K views 12 replies 9 participants last post by  Neil W 
#1 ·
Hi Tribe,
I just returned from the Rio Grande. The boys from across the pond were using various triple-density lines from Salmon Logic. They took a dim view of my skagit heads. Apparently the fish did not agree, as I caught as many fish as anyone did..... However, I was intrigued by these lines. I got on their website and it is.....................complicated to say the least. Most of the guys using them were travelling with 3. They were about 30 feet long. Can anyone tell me which flavor of triple density I might buy to try it out? I have a 13-6 T3h Scott 7 weight rod. Also, are those lines built to hang a sink tip on them, or does one fish them directly to the leader? Thanks for the help.
 
#3 ·
Outerheb., the thing with sinking lines is having one to match the flow and depth of water in the pools/streams your fishing.There's only one thing thats worse than having a line thats too slow and thats one thats too fast!.
You won't really want to be using what you'd call tips on the front of 3D lines- certainly not T tips or conventional 15ft multi tips either.
However you can use and will find adding a poly of 5ft or 10ft to the front of a 3D line will help with your anchor and final presentation no end.Obviously you want a poly of the same sink rate or quicker on the front!.
I use Guideline 3d heads in 8/9, 9/10, 10/11 and 11/12.
Bear in mind, they'll fish differently to your usual Skagit/tips approach!.
Were I you, try a float/hover/inty 1st off, see what you think.Common sense says the greater the sink rate, the deeper the water it will fish and the heavier the current it will overcome.
There's more than Salmonlogic heads out there too!.
Yorkie.
 
#4 ·
Agree that a Float/Hover/Intermediate triple-D would be a good one to try at first. Gaelforce has them. Personally, a good multi-tip covers a lot of ground and way less of an investment than a full compliment of triple-Ds. Another idea is some of the Nextcast heads in dual density to which you can add a tip in a third density. Very versatile.
 
#5 ·
Yorkie offers some excellent advise above :)
From my experiences as a former "sunk line junkie", full sinking lines fish much different than floating line and tips, whether skagit, scandi or traditional style lines.
The full sinking lines are methodical. You can control the speed of the swing much easier than a floater and tip ... mending a floater is not even on the same page as controlling a full sunk line. With mending, you are still at the mercy of the hydrodynamic tensions of surface currents. Full sinkers break through these tensions and keep sinking because there is minimal upward force that is found on floating bellies. No need to "huck" heavy T-material when you chose a full sinker. I've bottomed out with my I/S3/S5 in places that some one with a Skagit floater and 15ft of T-14 just passed through.

The Guideline 3D's are about as good as it gets in my opinion, especially with the variety of sizing. They are also trim-able from the back end and weld extremely easy. I've made hy-brid Skagit/Scandi heads with old Vision Ace shooting heads and Guideline PT's and 3D's, by going 2-3 line sizes up and trimming them back from front and back.
I have a couple Gaelforce 3D's coming and I'm excited to try them :D

Sorry for the rant and going off topic, I haven't tried the Salmonlogic stuff, but if Henrik is developing these heads, I'm sure they are excellent fishing tools !!


Mike
 
#6 ·
For me older Guideline 3D, which came longer and could be pruned from the back are the best. I ma glad I loaded before they discontinued them. The current pre-cut with looks on both side are very good to , but often you need cut then from the back and weld loop.

Saying that, Rio F-H-I is also very good head.Although Rio S 15-18' taper and loop at the back, you can comfortable cut 2-3 feet and re-loop. A short rear taper is really not critical at all.

Both Guideline and Rio has 10' front Int.section and 10' hover in the middle.

Guideline ( starting for the front) : Int. section is tapered, then small bump over 2' and tapered Hover, small bump over 2 ' , follow by 2-3 feet of taper in the float section and the rest is leveled .

Rio: tapered int., big bump in diameter and leveled however, bigger bump in diameter and leveled float.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Keep in mid, that with F-H-I you can utilize fluorocarbon leader which has 1.8gram/cm3 density and sinks like intermediate section, allowing to dig deeper into water column.
Depending on the rod length and fly size/wind you can use leader as sort as 6-7 feet as they stick better the mono.

If you do not want to make your own fluorocarbon leader when used 9-10 food taper leader, which typicality has 30 inch leveled front, then another 20-28" taper and leveled back. Once you use first 12-15 inches, cut the leader in the front closer to where taper starts, tie Lefty non-slip loop{ best knot for fluorocarbon line, use saliva when tying} . Now try have core leader and keep adding 30-36" tippet via loo-to loop connection.

Never use for fluorocarbon line and even monofilament line perfection loop, unless it is over 25 lb . Lefty Kreh loop has 90% strength, while perfection is in 70% range. Make 4-5 turns.

BTW, can also get Rio in Int-Hover-S3 range.

Nextcast Steelheadfinder F-S2 + S3 tip is also 3D head and you can cut them from the back. When you use then on a lighter side, they cast very nicely like Scadi heads.
 

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#8 ·
Having fished the Rio Grande a few times skagit lines are quite rightly the first choice. The fish sit in a narrow trench on the far side and you need to get flies down quickly into the trench. The skagit aids control in this situation which the longer 3D lines do not have the same effect in my experience anyway. I liked a float/ intermediate Skagit when the wind got up as it gave you more control. The guides who fish a lot tend to use a skagit.
When the wind drops then maybe a standard scandi, triple D F/H/I or multitip works but skagit was the frontline approach when I was there
 
#9 ·
Thank you for all the excellent counsel. I will pick up one of these and give it a try. I share the sentiment that the Skagit head works quite well on the Rio Grande. The holes with a cut bank on the outside of the curve - which is most of them - are a lot about where you cast it seems. Regardless of what head you are using, if you cannot drop the fly within a foot or two of the cut bank, mend quickly and get the fly down, it can be pretty unrewarding. I got at least 90% of my hits within the first 20 degrees of swing. Not many fish chasing very far from the cut bank.
The triple density guys were casting more downstream than I was. There were some advantages, as they had an easier and quieter mend, and it was easier to mend without moving the fly away from the cut bank. All in all, the Skagit and the FIST worked fine, but the triple density thing just sort of interests me, particularly for some of our wide, deep and fast rivers up here in Oregon. Again, thank you. I will report back.
 
#10 ·
Outerheb., were I you'd give serious consideration to a Multi tip lash up.For my sunk line approach in warmer waters I've settled on the Guideline DDC kit with the full compliment of tips.
Now in addition I also use up to a 10ft poly or more usually a 5ft one off the front of the tips.This will give me up to 25ft of variable sinking tip, of which the component parts are easily carried in the pocket and changeable whilst in the water.
I'm looking at the newer 4D multi tip system too as this will give longer tips with scope for more possibilities.
Thing is when fishing sunk lines/tips whatever to think from the flee back, I like the flee, leader and a few feet of line at most down level with the fish, not yds of line or heavy sinking tip.I go for a nice steady graduated slope of line down to the flee.You'll convert many more takes like this over level heavy tips off a floater!
As said a 3D will also swing slower than a gurt fat skagit and will be lesser affected by a nasty wind too!.
I've frequently picked up the bottom with my 3D and poly. approach where the Skagit guys have had a clean swing through!.
Little food for thought there for you.
Yorkie.
 
#12 ·
I carry 2-4-6, 1-2-4, and 1-2-3 sink rates to the river.

Thus you can try 1-2-4 as your only line. If you need to go deeper with it, cast more upstream, and apply tension later to the head after it sinks. Reverse the prescription if you need it to sink less.

Some heads are designed for sink tips, some, like Guidelines Triple Density, can be used without sink tips. At one time, Zpey lines were designed by Henrik Mortenson, so you interchange the head and sink tip combination to your liking. I went to his website and I think the logic heads come closest, but they look like one-piece heads with no tips needed.

My experience with a 7 weight 13' Guideline LPXE rod is the matching line weight would make a tipless design cast bigger flies much easier than with a tip. So it will depend on your fly size and how it sheds water.

I ended up making my own Zpey-combination but using one common tip to different sink heads.
 
#13 ·
As an update some of my friends returned from the Rio Grande after a tough week of high water and high wind. There were times when full sinking 3D lines worked well under these conditions as any line with a floating section at the back just got pushed along too quickly. The high water meant that full sinkers worked. This is not normal conditions though.
 
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