One more Nextcast clarification - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 01:23 PM Thread Starter
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One more Nextcast clarification

OK, so I know that my Burk 6128-4 Loves a 400-420 scandi comp and around a 450 grain Skagit. Easy. No problem.

Enter the Nextcast Fall Favorite 45.

The website suggest a 475 grain for a 6wt rod that is 11-15’. When I called the number the gentleman suggested a 525 or 550.

I use the FF45 on that rod and would rather cast that than any other I have tried. It feels like the perfect match.

So here is the question? Is a Fall Favorite a Scandi line? It is only 38 1/2 feet long so I can’t really call it a mid-belly.

And if it is a Scandinavian line why is the preferred grain weight so much higher than my Skagit preference?

In the end, I guess it doesn’t really matter. I put on a long tapered leader or a floating poly and enjoy casting it.

“A rose by any other name…”

I guess I just wanna understand things better.
Thanks in advance for your wisdom
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 02:51 PM
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I’ve always been a bourbon drinker. My buddies like single malt scotch and tell me it’s much better, but I never developed a taste for it.

I think this falls into the “if it ain’t broke” category. Or, more accurately, different strokes for different folks.

"Only the mediocre are always at their best" - Andy Capp
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:16 PM
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Welcome to the mysterious world of Nextcast lines. My favorites, but sometimes it takes some time and practice to figure out the differences between their lines and others. Generally, their lines will be heavier than others for a given rod--not sure why it works but it seems to be the case. Can't help you with that particular rod and line, but when you get it sorted I'm sure you'll be pleased.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:22 PM
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Eck,

In short, the 45 is what it is. Personally, I wouldn't worry about which nomenclature box to fit it into and focus simply on if it works for you or not. There is a LOT of nuance in line tapers and how they match up with specific rods and individual casting strokes, and it sounds like you have found a "scandi-ish" length line that works like a champion. Many of the Nextcast tapers are substantially different than those on comparable length lines and will load a rod differently. Add to that the fact that is looks like your rod has a pretty broad grain window and the end result is that you have a variety of line options. So, I'd so go with the 45 and live happily ever after. Sounds like a fun setup.

Tom
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:31 PM
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Nextcast lines are different.
Because of its mass distribution to the rear end, it’s long tapered mid section and fine tapered front, the rods can take more weight in total, compared to other lines, in general without overloading the rod tip.
But I am careful. I don’t stretch it too much. Some of the recommendations are all too much for my liking.
In the end it comes down to what is preferred individually. I stay more on the lower side of recommendations. I prefer higher linespeed and I don’t like line sacking. Something that happens with NC lines and some recommended rod line pairings on the higher end of the scale.
Some will characterize them different. For me they are Scandi lines, just different. There are some exceptions in the shorter heads/lines which show more characteristics of a Skagit.

For all my pairings with NC lines I tried different line weights. Cutting weight off from the rear end is easy done, also splicing after the final result in personal needs and preferences.
I came away from them meanwhile in the lower rod and line classes. They are exceptional good, especially the SF 40 and 45 for rods up from #9 for salmon fishing.

Time is running... A little bit of work, a little bit married, fishing, hunting... What else?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 03:38 PM
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Go with what you already know. In my honest opinion there are some very limited ideas out there on how to match a line to a rod.

If you were to go by the AFFTA chart you will see that it is a shooting head, i.e., it is under 50 feet in length. Skagit heads are shooting heads just the same. Most FallFaves and WinterAuthorities are heads these days but there are some integrated versions still available. All of mine are.

You'll notice the weights listed range from .966/+1.036 grains for each style or category of line (head, short, mid, and long-belly). This is one reason the grains listed by AFFTA are likely to be considerably lighter than any of the various line-recommendation charts that have been put together by various manufactures. Manufactures will make a line heavier, or simply label their product however that they see fit for various reasons. Reason can be to create a powerful taper ( i. e., the funnel taper) to cast into a strong wind, to cast heavy flies, or to shoot further. Also, and very generally-speaking heavier lines are easier to cast.

I've noticed that all the other line recommendations charts are set-up around a "grains window " and on the commonly accepted idea that a certain style of line should fall within a prescribed range within the window. For example: That for any given rod "A scandi should be light, or left in the window, a skagit-head should be heavier than and/or ranging mid to right in the window" and so on for each style/category. T Right?

What Im getting at is that it seems this idea is often (not all ways) so widely accepted that whenever a match-up is made, or recommendation is given that is not of the same opinion it is often questioned.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all of you for your insight. I love this website. I guess what I’m understanding is that the fall favorite is neither a Scandinavian, Skagit nor a mid-belly but Rather an entity within its own self and a unique taper. My preconceived notion’s of grain windows Should be abandoned And I should simply except the fact that I have found the correct fall favorite line for that particular Rod.

The Nextcast Website is kind of confusing. With other websites they simply offer different line configurations under the category of either Scandinavian or Skagit. I guess I assumed nextcast would be the same. What I’m understanding is that those lines do not fit into either of those categories.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eckman View Post
OK, so I know that my Burk 6128-4 Loves a 400-420 scandi comp and around a 450 grain Skagit. Easy. No problem.

Enter the Nextcast Fall Favorite 45.

The website suggest a 475 grain for a 6wt rod that is 11-15’. When I called the number the gentleman suggested a 525 or 550.

I use the FF45 on that rod and would rather cast that than any other I have tried. It feels like the perfect match.

So here is the question? Is a Fall Favorite a Scandi line? It is only 38 1/2 feet long so I can’t really call it a mid-belly.

And if it is a Scandinavian line why is the preferred grain weight so much higher than my Skagit preference?

In the end, I guess it doesn’t really matter. I put on a long tapered leader or a floating poly and enjoy casting it.

“A rose by any other name…”

I guess I just wanna understand things better.
Thanks in advance for your wisdom

Apparently lot of people get confused, but it is actually very simple, at least as far as I am concerned. I think the “problems” are all on the NC side, with the labeling conventions and other issues.

As mentioned above, they are not scandi heads, though (especially at the low wt end) they are only a few feet longer than a scandi, or a skagit compact with a 12’ tip for that matter. They kind of have a skagitty level butt with a tapered-but-not-quite-scandi front end. Also note the length of the level back end is different for each weight line, another curveball, so the proportions of the taper change with the weight. So they have in effect different overall tapers for each weight, and will feel different because of that. I guess you could say the light weight ones are “closer” to a scandi.

But expect to always prefer more weight than your favorite Scandi. My advice has always been to first try one that weighs (I always weigh the NC line on a scale) the same as the skagit head you like on a rod, and fine tune from there - a rule that so far has never failed me. So it that sense “simple”. For me at least. So I’m surprised by your experience. Have they changed things a lot in the past few years?

I have used a FF45 on multiple 13’-ish 6 wts and ~ 450 is the about the weight I like. As always it can depend a little on the rod and on personal tastes. The 475 will probably be fine. But IMHO for that rod 525-550 be trippin’! Bad enough for CS or the guy down at the shop to give advice by reading a chart, but if you then even read the chart wrong ....

“Gravity is a harsh mistress!”, The Tick

Last edited by Botsari; 11-16-2019 at 06:50 PM.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Yep 525 is what was recommended by the person who answered the phone at Nextcast
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eckman View Post
Yep 525 is what was recommended by the person who answered the phone at Nextcast
And this is the one where you found your bliss? Weird, but always good to find it.

I have differing experiences as to “bliss” with different wt rods, but for me the most perfect was the 580 FF45 on a 7/8 MKS. This seems very different as maybe extrapolating your experience would mean something like a 625.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-16-2019, 09:58 PM
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For me, the Nextcast FF heads are simply longer Scandi heads. They cast just like a Scandi head. Or put another way, the FF heads cast well using casting methods typically associated with Scandi heads. The FF heads also cast well using a sustained anchor cast.

There are a number of long belly snobs in my neck of the woods. "Trainer wheels" is one I hear on occasion in reference to shorter heads. Best not to pretend anything or reach for terms like 'mid-belly'. :-)

For your rod, I would guess that 525 grains would be about right. 500 grain FF 45 would likely cast nicely too. 550 strikes me as too heavy.

The preferred line weight is higher than a Skagit head because you add a heavy tip to a Skagit head.


On my Sage TCX 7216 (really an 8 wt.) I initially cast and fished a 480 Scandi head, and ended up at a 570 grain Nextcast FF 7/8 wt. I recently custom-cut a FF 55 8/9 wt. down to about 590 grains. It is a little heavy but fishes well in close.

I like to be able to load 2-handers deep into the lower portion of the rod, perhaps like the fellow who answered the phone at Nextcast. My limited experience casting and fishing Burkies is that they can also load down deep into the butt and deliver significant smooth power. That may or may not be your personal preference Eckman.

°

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-17-2019, 01:00 AM
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Enzo, yeah even if you go by line-to-rod length ratios as the basis for a “traditional” definition, a “midbelly” even for that shortish Burkie would be at least 60’. I know at least one “hardcore old time” traditionalist out there who strongly objects to taking the rod length into account at all, and insists a “midbelly” line is always 70-80’. Maybe some people are now using it like the millennial and gen-x “kids” use “literally” to mean “figuratively”, I don’t know.

I have too much respect for(enjoyment of?) some of the more elegant properties of long scandi and short shortbelly lines with a more uniform taper (the aero head comes to mind for example, or the very elegant Vectors) to compare them with Fall Favorites very closely. To me they don’t feel much like regular Scandis when I cast them. I like both NC and scandi heads very much - under the right conditions - but if you cast them side by side I think most people would say there is a big difference in how they feel. But they both get the same job done.

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-18-2019, 04:04 PM
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Guys: I would ask that you consider looking at it like this:
Could this or anyother rod also "love" a shooting head or "style" of line weighing anywhere from 360 to 480 grains, cast in any given style?
Disregard any recommendation you my have previously followed our any prior personal-preference.

Thanks,
Vic.
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