MOW vs. Commando tips ?? - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Fishing MOW vs. Commando tips ?

To start, I'm fishing a 4wt Hydrogen, for trout obviously. My skagit setup is a Commando smooth 250. I have been using the Rio T8 MOW tips - 2.5/7.5 and a 7.5/2.5 and like playing around with weighted and unweighted flies with each. But I do not feel like I really know where the fly is in the column a lot of the time.

The MOW tips are broken into 2.5' increments of T material while the Commando tips are consistent with varying rates. I like the idea of the S2, S4, S6 - it seems that, maybe, these would be easier to get a feel for depth.

I am curious to hear anyone's experiences with comparing these two tip systems.

Last edited by John_MT; 11-05-2019 at 10:15 PM. Reason: clarify purpose
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 12:28 PM
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I really like the Commando tips. Mostly use the floating ten foot tip. When I go under I use the Riffle tip most of the time.
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Last edited by flyfisher231; 11-04-2019 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Add thought.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 03:07 PM
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If you put just a foot or so of line out of the rod tip (so basically just the sinking tip/leader/tippet/fly out of the rod) and hold the rod upstream of you with the tip of the rod on the water's surface, letting the sink tip/leader/tippet/fly hang down in the current (the fly should be pretty close to you here considering 10' tip 3' tippet), you can watch exactly where the fly will be in that speed of water after you let it settle in.

All sink tips will work to get your fly down in the water column it just depends on the sink rates and hydrodynamic properties. There isn't a huge difference in all of these sink tips, although the industry will like you to think otherwise. There is a website (I think flyfishingresearch.com) that did some analysis of different sink depths with different tips in different speeds of water. You would probably be surprised by the results of how little sink there is in 3 mph water. I cannot vouch for their results, but it's a starting point. A 2.5' sink tip is essentially a complete waste of money.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 03:27 PM
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I think largely just two different answers to the same problem. Pick your tip(s), learn your tip and fish on.

That said, I do like MOWs in broken boulder garden/pocket water. I may be kidding myself, but I aim to make my swing cross buckets at what I think are strategic places. Cast, to create the swing path, rod tip hight til tip and fly begins o enter the target water, then lower the tip to let the tip/fly sink and swing through.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 03:48 PM
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I like both systems but I agree that the 2.5/7.5 mini tip isn't very useful to me. I don't like a big hinge in my swing. Basically my goal is usually to attain depth without hanging up on the hang down, not be on the bottom for the whole swing. Unless it's brutal cold, the fish I'm looking for will chase the fly.

For the MOWs, I use the 7.5 T8/2.5 Int probably the most frequently. It helps in late fall low flows to not hang up as much as the full tips. Lately I've been using this one with my weightless marabou minnows, but as it gets colder I will switch to either the Run or the T8 10' for mid-winter/coldest water temps. Personally, my favorite thing about the 12' OPST tips is that they give you a long, level, line to the fly. I use all three of them at various times, but I think the Riffle and Run are probably the most useful.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all, for sharing your experience and knowledge.

I got out today and swung both the 2.5/7.5 and 7.5/2.5 with a variety of weighted and unweighted flies. Felt like a perfect day, dark and cool, but dang it I couldn't get any more than a couple tugs.

It was a perfect day, actually. I just didn't catch any fish.

I need to add an intermediate of some variety, be it a Riffle or other. I've imagined that the 2.5' T8 might work the similarly to an intermediate, but now I can see that it probably doesn't. Guess I just have to keep messing around with all this, though as mentioned, that season has passed as we moved into the deep dredging time of year.

And just when I was getting really comfortable with scandi casting...
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_MT View Post
To start, I'm fishing a 4wt Hydrogen, for trout obviously. My skagit setup is a Commando smooth 250. I have been using the Rio T8 MOW tips - 2.5/7.5 and a 7.5/2.5 and like playing around with weighted and unweighted flies with each. But I do not feel like I really know where the fly is in the column a lot of the time.

The MOW tips are broken into 2.5' increments of T material while the Commando tips are consistent with varying rates. I like the idea of the S2, S4, S6 - it seems that, maybe, these would be easier to get a feel for depth.

I am curious to hear anyone's experiences with comparing these two tip systems.
Here's what ed ward the W in the m.o.W tip basically explained about mow tips (link below)
The shorter the sink tip the faster it sinks and raises.
The 2.5 + 5/5 are especially tactical tips. I wouldn't fish them often if i thought the fish was on the wade line seem (seem at the bottom of your swing). I fish them with weighted fly's if i think the fish out there in the very first few feet of my drift/swing in slot or ledge.
The product video gives a different impression but when i read wards words it all made sense,, he explains in this thread under the name river addict
https://www.speypages.com/speyclave/...-my-own-2.html

Basically for controlling depth for a entire swing i wouldn't use short tips. They are raising at different points in the swing. where long tip takes it time getting down and stays down under tension better. basically if the likely lie is in the last few feet long tip, if in the start short tip + weighted fiy

I'd use type tips or commando tips to get a better sweep at one depth in more shallow conditions. Then T material if the run is pretty deep.. all while increasing density to get deep and deeper

Anyone can correct me if im wrong im no master.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HumberRskagit View Post
Here's what ed ward the W in the m.o.W tip basically explained about mow tips (link below)

https://www.speypages.com/speyclave/...-my-own-2.html

Basically for controlling depth for a entire swing i wouldn't use short tips. They are raising at different points in the swing. where long tip takes it time getting down and stays down under tension better. basically if the likely lie is in the last few feet long tip, if in the start short tip + weighted fiy
Thanks. That is great info and makes a lot of sense. A funny thing, I fished with Mike McCune (the "M") not long ago, he guides out of Craig, MT, and I asked him specifically if the 7.5/2.5 T8 might fish the same approximate depth as an intermediate and replied "yeah, maybe." I got the feeling that Mike doesn't like to get super techy with his gear, which is funny because he helped pioneer all this short head skagit stuff. He seemed like more of a "keep it simple, stupid" kind of guy, which I appreciate. My guess is that he's just become tired of all the minutia and overly specific questions that he gets asked over and over. He is a casting guru. The few hours I spent with him improved my casts by a year of me working alone.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by John_MT View Post
Thanks all, for sharing your experience and knowledge.

I got out today and swung both the 2.5/7.5 and 7.5/2.5 with a variety of weighted and unweighted flies. Felt like a perfect day, dark and cool, but dang it I couldn't get any more than a couple tugs.

It was a perfect day, actually. I just didn't catch any fish.

I need to add an intermediate of some variety, be it a Riffle or other. I've imagined that the 2.5' T8 might work the similarly to an intermediate, but now I can see that it probably doesn't. Guess I just have to keep messing around with all this, though as mentioned, that season has passed as we moved into the deep dredging time of year.

And just when I was getting really comfortable with scandi casting...
I got a few yesterday on my lunch break on the Clarkie in town. Very cold water temps. I was fishing the weightless marabou fly on 10ft of T8 and felt like I was in the zone. Up until yesterday, I'd been using the 7.5, but I could tell I needed to be deeper. If I had a weighted fly on, I think I probably would have needed to move it to keep from hanging up. The 96 gr. Run would probably be my choice with a weighted fly like a sculpin or something. I rarely go above a medium eye fly and usually small eyes.. If the 12' is hanging up, throw on the 10'. Biggest fish ate on the strip in on the hangdown. Had these weird big spots on the gill plates. Hadn't seen that before.

We should get together and fish sometime! You down in Florence? My buddy Travis and I are pretty much swing only. He's got two browns over 25" in the past 2 weeks so he's having an amazing fall! One was about 10 minutes behind me. Guess he didn't want the minnow!
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 01:39 PM Thread Starter
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Yep, I'm in Florence.

I was down below town a little ways, the best tug I had was on the hang down with the 7.5 T8 and a small beadhead bugger, so yeah - I probably needed more depth.

I met Travis at the camp in Craig, we had drunken chat about flies. I'd love to get out with you guys sometime. I'm committed to swinging this winter!
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 02:53 PM
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Yep, I'm in Florence.

I was down below town a little ways, the best tug I had was on the hang down with the 7.5 T8 and a small beadhead bugger, so yeah - I probably needed more depth.

I met Travis at the camp in Craig, we had drunken chat about flies. I'd love to get out with you guys sometime. I'm committed to swinging this winter!
Word! All I know is basically from my own trial and error, but I try to be a sponge because I learn something from everybody. We've got a good run down your way. I'll Insta chat you next time I head down there and maybe we can meet up. Lost a monster there a few days ago. New clicker reel caught me off guard. Not used to having to reel so fast!

That recent giant fish that Travis caught he got in a run that I had just fished through 20 minutes earlier. I didn't get a sniff.

However other than lunch breaks, the next few weeks I'll mostly be focused on steelheading. The Salmon unfroze for a bit and I wanna hit the window before it slams shut again. I've only landed one fish this whole season so I'd like to double that if I can!
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Word! All I know is basically from my own trial and error, but I try to be a sponge because I learn something from everybody. We've got a good run down your way. I'll Insta chat you next time I head down there and maybe we can meet up. Lost a monster there a few days ago. New clicker reel caught me off guard. Not used to having to reel so fast!

That recent giant fish that Travis caught he got in a run that I had just fished through 20 minutes earlier. I didn't get a sniff.

However other than lunch breaks, the next few weeks I'll mostly be focused on steelheading. The Salmon unfroze for a bit and I wanna hit the window before it slams shut again. I've only landed one fish this whole season so I'd like to double that if I can!
Sounds good.

I'll keep my eye out between bridges if I go for a lunch walk.

Good luck down in Idamaho!
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