Is there a max rod length for Skagit Scouts? - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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Is there a max rod length for Skagit Scouts?

So I have Scouts on my TFO DC 4110 and Sage One 8116. Just picked up a Loomis IMX 31111 that I’m planning on getting a Scout 270 for. At some point this summer, I plan on getting a 7 wt in a “true spey” length. But nowadays, it seems 12’ to 13’6” is considered spey (short spey?).

Anyhow, in that size, generically speaking, it looks like I’ll probably be lining it with a 480 or 510 grain Scout which are 18.5 and 19.5 ft respectively.

Scouts are marketed as single hand or switch Skagit heads. However, will they still be optimal on something like a 7126? Or will the short length start to feel a little choppy on casts? Putting preference for longer belly lines aside, should I be looking for a slightly longer head for better casting mechanics?


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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 12:24 AM
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I use the 510 skagit switch on my 7129 Winston with either 10 or 15 foot tips. It throw's that line really well. I think it's 20 feet. The skagit compact is a bit longer in those grain weights (23-24'), so you could also use that line.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 07:07 AM
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Eventually longer rod turns unnecessary weight and wind resistance. When you find short line head difficult to Spey cast you can improve it using longer leader but after 15ft or so longer line head comes better.

Esa
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 09:22 AM
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Use slightly longer tips and maybe some more leader. And don't forget to work the overhang. I can use Commando Heads on everything I have up to 13' with the correct amount of overhang. It can be frustrating adding more overhang into the equation but it is worth figuring out and it can solve lots of problems that you thought were head or tip length related. Its like putting a one pound weight in a balance scale. The further out it goes the more it weighs. Before you know it you can cast an 18' (or less) head on a 13 footer.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 05:59 PM
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I use a 20' Airflo Scout in 510 grain size on my 13' 7wt. rod with no issues.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-15-2019, 08:49 PM
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Your head length and rod length match is going to depend on your casting style as well. Some casters are very much in the "phonebooth" with their casting (ie- arms tight to the body, high rod tip, close anchor) a short head on a long rod (lower line:rod ratio) is great pairing. Others, myself included, prefer a longer line/higher line:rod ratio, and a bit "wider" casting stroke. There's no hard and fast rule saying you MUST fish X' line on Y' rod, and shooting heads are fairly inexpensive (especially in the used market), so you can experiment until you find a setup that works best for your specific situation.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 01:46 AM
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Like many things in speycasting, to a great extent this is a function of the skill of the caster, and the caster's tolerance for frustration.

In my opinion and observation, for most people, the easiest casting setups are total head length (belly + tip) in the 2.5-3X rod length range. Past a point on either end, say for the sake of argument under 2X and over 4X, fairly definite adjustments need to be made in the casting mechanics. At the short end, if you are using a 10' tip, just under 30' total head length is in my opinion a little short but not super short. If you are a muscle memory sort of caster, used to a more 'standard' 25' skagit, you might find a few more blown anchors than usual and have to work to keep the stroke compact. If you are a watch-the-anchor sort of caster, should not be a problem. If you are a new caster, I personally would advise you to work with both a slightly longer head and a slightly longer rod until you have a better feel for how stroke length, rod elevation, and incline angle affect the cast.

For reference, I use one of the now-discontinued 11' Rio trout skagits on a 12'4" rod. With 10' tips that is a 1.7X line/rod ratio -- quite short. I don't really have any problem with it, as long as I focus on keeping all the motions compact and really watch where the anchor is going. And for context, I also spend a lot of time casting 70'+ heads (not on the same water, as should be obvious). Switching back and forth is in fact pretty jarring and requires some concentration, it is not something one can do 'on autopilot', but I can settle down into a routine after maybe twenty minutes of adjustment time.

The suggestions about playing with overhang and tip length are valid. But nothing substitutes for properly tuned casting mechanics. Keep your strokes smooth and compact, and stay off the gas. With a short head length and longer rod, you may end up using a little closer anchor placement, so straight, properly placed anchors are essential. Work on those. Watch your fly/anchor, and if you hook one behind or in front, abort the cast. We've already had a thread this year on nose jewelry.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-16-2019, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troutless View Post
Like many things in speycasting, to a great extent this is a function of the skill of the caster, and the caster's tolerance for frustration.

In my opinion and observation, for most people, the easiest casting setups are total head length (belly + tip) in the 2.5-3X rod length range. Past a point on either end, say for the sake of argument under 2X and over 4X, fairly definite adjustments need to be made in the casting mechanics. At the short end, if you are using a 10' tip, just under 30' total head length is in my opinion a little short but not super short. If you are a muscle memory sort of caster, used to a more 'standard' 25' skagit, you might find a few more blown anchors than usual and have to work to keep the stroke compact. If you are a watch-the-anchor sort of caster, should not be a problem. If you are a new caster, I personally would advise you to work with both a slightly longer head and a slightly longer rod until you have a better feel for how stroke length, rod elevation, and incline angle affect the cast.

For reference, I use one of the now-discontinued 11' Rio trout skagits on a 12'4" rod. With 10' tips that is a 1.7X line/rod ratio -- quite short. I don't really have any problem with it, as long as I focus on keeping all the motions compact and really watch where the anchor is going. And for context, I also spend a lot of time casting 70'+ heads (not on the same water, as should be obvious). Switching back and forth is in fact pretty jarring and requires some concentration, it is not something one can do 'on autopilot', but I can settle down into a routine after maybe twenty minutes of adjustment time.

The suggestions about playing with overhang and tip length are valid. But nothing substitutes for properly tuned casting mechanics. Keep your strokes smooth and compact, and stay off the gas. With a short head length and longer rod, you may end up using a little closer anchor placement, so straight, properly placed anchors are essential. Work on those. Watch your fly/anchor, and if you hook one behind or in front, abort the cast. We've already had a thread this year on nose jewelry.
Your last paragraph is great advice and sums it up perfectly. As far as the jewelry maybe outerhebrides can chime in on that one.
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