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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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Line welding issues

I've had some issues welding a new loop to a nextcast coastal that I recently cut down.

A few things:

- I'm welding with a flat iron instead of a heat gun
- I practiced this weld numerous times prior to actually executing the final weld (1/2 were good, the other 1/2 looked like the photo)
- Sometimes the lines would liquify and bond nicely. The other times, the lines mashed together, delaminated from their cores and fell apart
- I did finally get a good weld but I'm not able to pin point what is different about the failures vs the successful attempts. Seems like I'm applying similar pressure, heat, and technique

Any info would be helpful.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 03:33 PM
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Very hard to tell from just one picture but looks maybe like the two lines are just sticking, not welding.

Are you using shrink tubing? Dumb question, I know. I only ask because I can’t really see some of the tell-tale signs on the pic, but it is super grainy on my screen.

Cleaning the line surfaces well beforehand?

Also, just to be sure %100 sure - the stuff you are using for the loop? Is it the same stuff - chemically I mean? Different materials melt at different temperatures, and some stuff can’t be welded at all. I’ve done this particular type of weld using an extra piece of ridge shooting line. Can you make a consistent good welded loop with just the random fly line to itself - when finished there should be no visible “seam”.

What do you have the temperature set to for your hair straightener?

Anyway, a first guess would be not enough heat applied for consistent full liquification of one or both lines, and/or enough time where both lines were in a melted state. The related culprit might be different and incompatible materials. Well welded lines should not come apart like this, along a well-defined boundary between the two pieces, and OVER heated stuff (harder to do with the iron) looks different usually but having the original line rip apart, that is usually when things got too hot. Was it that way right out of the shrink tubing?

FWIW I’d use a bit more material for the loop and weld PAST the line a bit, so the extra line is welded to itself for a short section.

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Last edited by Botsari; 01-11-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 04:25 PM
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I have made a lot of welds, including in Nextcast lines, and have never seen this occur. I recommend using something other than a random line for the loop. PU (Airflo) running line works great, makes welding very easy. Redshed sells it by the foot.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botsari View Post
Very hard to tell from just one picture but looks maybe like the two lines are just sticking, not welding.

Are you using shrink tubing? Dumb question, I know. I only ask because I can’t really see some of the tell-tale signs on the pic, but it is super grainy on my screen.

Cleaning the line surfaces well beforehand?

Also, just to be sure %100 sure - the stuff you are using for the loop? Is it the same stuff - chemically I mean? Different materials melt at different temperatures, and some stuff can’t be welded at all. I’ve done this particular type of weld using an extra piece Rio ridge shooting line. Can you make a consistent good welded loop with just the random fly line to itself - when finished there should be no visible “seam”.

What do you have the temperature set to for your hair straightener?

Anyway, a first guess would be not enough heat applied for consistent full liquification of one or both lines, and/or enough time where both lines were in a melted state. The related culprit might be different and incompatible materials. Well welded lines should not come apart like this, along a well-defined boundary between the two pieces, and OVER heated stuff (harder to do with the iron) looks different usually but having the original line rip apart, that is usually when things got too hot. Was it that way right out of the shrink tubing?

FWIW I’d use a bit more material for the loop and weld PAST the line a bit, so the extra line is welded to itself for a short section.
Great comments/ questions. Thank you for responding.

- yes using shrink tubing

- The line I'm using for the loop welds up nicely by itself but not so well (sometimes) to the nextcast line. I will post pictures of the more successful attempt tonight when I get home

- the hair straightener is set to 20 out of 35 on the dial. Anything higher than that seems to obliterate the lines

- I think using an "unknown" line for the loop maybe causing some headaches here. I have some Rio shooting line that I will try this weekend
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSPey View Post
I have made a lot of welds, including in Nextcast lines, and have never seen this occur. I recommend using something other than a random line for the loop. PU (Airflo) running line works great, makes welding very easy. Redshed sells it by the foot.

I'll need to get some PU as I think I only have Rio lines (PVC) at the moment.

Botsari mentioned above using the same material. Is the nextcast line PU or PVC?

Thanks for the reply.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 05:38 PM
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Yeah, Airflo ridge, not Rio. I edited my post to reflect this. I think I may have developed some sort of Rio-Airflo dyslexia.

The ridge is the same stuff as SSPey mentioned I believe, but for sure the same material.

Those two materials have different melting points as well. Regardless of how well they self-weld if the two lines are not in the same state of liquefaction when they fuse I imagine the results might be like you are seeing above, and in the worst case senario the low melting point line fries (chemically changes and looses its properties) before the high melting point line is sufficiently soft.

There are some very inexpensive irons that have a thermostat with temperature units in degrees. Not sure how exact they are when compared side by side but very useful if you weld different materials. You can find many posts on here that discuss what temperature settings people found worked for different materials, for example.

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Last edited by Botsari; 01-11-2019 at 06:03 PM.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botsari View Post
Yeah, Airflo ridge. I think I may have developed some sort of Rio-Airflo dyslexia.


So airflo ridge (PU) will weld just fine to other lines that aren't of the same make up?
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 06:01 PM
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Nextcast lines are PVC, but PU makes good aftermarket loops on both PVC and PU heads. I use an old PU running line cut from a Vision line that was made by Airflo.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 06:27 PM
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On my flat iron, I have it set at '17' for PVC, '10' for PU. Also, I have found the PVC tends to bond to the core more than PU (could be attributed to bond nature of PU).

Also, softer PVC will need less heat to melt and flow than stiffer PVC. My experience with the '17' above on softer PVC, it will cook out the plasticizer, slightly browning it, and it will crack after some time (loss of suppleness).

I would stay away from using Ridge lines for loops. My experience is the raised ridges melt down first and creates a skinny neck down to the smoothness of the weld. I don't think this will affect strength, but it looks so ugly our diminished fishing-with-confidence factor will make the fish wave goodbye at the passing fly.

As for the direct suggestion on this thread, try using a higher shrink factor shrink tubing. Also, if you can have an even cross section thickness throughout the weld, that would help. Loops around 34 thou are great to use, anything thicker is not needed. Also, at your loop ends, make sure you ramp your cuts so the core is exposed to the main line.
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 07:49 PM
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Good info. But I have not found the part about the ridge running line not to be the case.

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 11:53 PM
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Shave the taper in that line and weld a standard loop. You can use a dremel or razor. Very light cover of Aquasure to protect it and u are set. Many ways to skin a cat but thats how I skin mine.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 12:04 PM
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I started with Poppy's kit and continued to use airflo when my original supply ran out. I used it to weld many loops onto Nextcast lines. It looks like you need to crank up the heat? I use the heat gun in the kit.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Filip View Post
I've had some issues welding a new loop to a nextcast coastal that I recently cut down.

A few things:

- I'm welding with a flat iron instead of a heat gun
- I practiced this weld numerous times prior to actually executing the final weld (1/2 were good, the other 1/2 looked like the photo)
- Sometimes the lines would liquify and bond nicely. The other times, the lines mashed together, delaminated from their cores and fell apart
- I did finally get a good weld but I'm not able to pin point what is different about the failures vs the successful attempts. Seems like I'm applying similar pressure, heat, and technique

Any info would be helpful.
I would cut the failed weld area clean off and splice a rear taper with running section from some other [scrap] line. Too easy.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 02:11 PM
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The best PU running line for loops is from older Delta made 3 years ago or earlier. It is about 0.042" and is bit harder then newer PU Airflo ( 50 lb) , still soft overall. PU when melts at lower temp ( ca. 80-90 C vs. 120 C PVC) , simply dissolve PVC and nicely blends together at lower temp.
Even when you weld PVC-PU or PU-PU use very narrow nozzle at the end of the loop to prevent softening fly line beyond loop line end. If that happens anyway , clean soft area with rubbing alcohol to remove human grease, let it fry for few minutes, cover the soft area with moderate amount of UV gel and expose to good sun radiation for at least 30 minutes, ideally late morning to early afternoon when temps are at lest 40F.

When UV gel cures, it creates a layer which itself has stiffens similar to that of PU or PVC fly line coating.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 04:51 PM
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Keep an eye out for core-separation anytime you apply heat to fly lines. Once the core and coating separate they will not bond correctly by welding. Matter of time and use before it will need to be redone over and again.

Several Airflo lines have ridge-line as the running section and the stuff is notorious for separating from the core and splitting along the ridges.
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