Poly-Leaders & Versi-Leaders - Spey Pages
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 01:16 AM Thread Starter
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Poly-Leaders & Versi-Leaders

The following page

http://flyfishingresearch.net/calcem...dsinktips.html

does an excellent job of explaining the performance of these "leader" products. Most folks will be surprised by the difference in performance vs. advertising language for some of these. Like most products, there are pros and cons, but there are mostly cons if you are fishing sinking flies.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 08:45 AM
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Good stuff, Bob. I knew there was an issue here, but had no idea it was a dramatic as it is. Thanks for the heads up.
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 03:46 PM
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Bob,

Question, please:

My thinking is that the sinking leaders provide a bit of sinking, but more importantly slow the swing down, such that the fly swings past the fish a bit slower providing a larger window of time for the fish to react.

Do you agree?
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 04:28 PM
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Al,
I tend to disagree. I do think the weight of the sinktip helps slow down the swing, but I feel that the initial cast and following mend(s) are what really control the speed of the fly through the strike zone.

I also don't think a heavier sinktip equates to a slower presentation. The current will have a harder time pushing the heavier weight, but I feel it kills the action of the fly so it is dragged rather than swimmed, and there won't be many takers to a dead fly.

I think there is a happen medium, however, it will be different for each of us.

Great link....good post!!
Frank
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 07:41 PM
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Try the 'Michael Evans' poly-leaders, these are made by Airflo & are of the same densities as their tapered leaders, but are level leaders without any taper & sink at an even rate [although if fished off a floater or slower sinking line this will slow the sinking of the butt end causing the tip to sink at a faster rate]. They are available in 5ft & 10 ft lengths & are looped at each end, I buy the 10 footer & cut them as required ,ie: 7ft & 3ft or 6 ft & 4ft etc, or use complete to achieve the presentation I want.
Whilst not as delicate in terms of presentation, they definately turn over larger &/or heavier flies more easily than the tapered versions. they are designed for salmon fishing & are constructed on a 30lb breaking strain core, at least the one I just checked is labeled as such & I'm not aware of any changes recently to the design.

Regards, Tyke.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-30-2009, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyke View Post
Try the 'Michael Evans' poly-leaders, these are made by Airflo & are of the same densities as their tapered leaders, but are level leaders without any taper & sink at an even rate [although if fished off a floater or slower sinking line this will slow the sinking of the butt end causing the tip to sink at a faster rate]. They are available in 5ft & 10 ft lengths & are looped at each end, I buy the 10 footer & cut them as required ,ie: 7ft & 3ft or 6 ft & 4ft etc, or use complete to achieve the presentation I want.
Whilst not as delicate in terms of presentation, they definately turn over larger &/or heavier flies more easily than the tapered versions. they are designed for salmon fishing & are constructed on a 30lb breaking strain core, at least the one I just checked is labeled as such & I'm not aware of any changes recently to the design.

Regards, Tyke.
This afternoon I was thinking about the same subject. One set of polyleaders I own used to be marketed by Loop. This was before the color system of rods and matching lines with "sinking tips" which were in effect polyleaders. I never saw the ones I own marketed in the US. I bought them in Iceland the first year I fished there (in 2000.) They are level, and the length of each varies somewhat depending upon the density. I actually still use these quite a bit and one reason they seem to work better probably has something to do with the fact that they're level. Since Loop actually made very little of what it marketed, especially in those days, I wouldn't doubt they were made by Airflo, but they were different leaders than Airflo's.
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 08:11 AM
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thank you bob,

nice update to one of my favorite, most interesting sites.


post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Neves View Post
Bob,

Question, please:

My thinking is that the sinking leaders provide a bit of sinking, but more importantly slow the swing down, such that the fly swings past the fish a bit slower providing a larger window of time for the fish to react.

Do you agree?
Al,

That is a good question. A submerged line is moved laterally by a river's current with a force proportional to the line's diameter and velocity of the water. The weight of the submerged line/leader is not a factor in the lateral force, because weight acts downward.

Bob

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 01:52 PM
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Bob and folks,

I think the swing speed maybe impacted by even marginal depths.

My thinking is that even a slight sinking of the leader/fly system results in a slower swing since there is, what I think is "swing drag" since the leader/fly is further down the water column where the water laminar flow is a slower.

I perform a lot of electrognetic analysis using field solvers, and wondering if anyone out there has done a simple simulation using mechanical 3D finite element solvers to solve for this system and analyze the swing speed as a function of fly/leader depth. The key concept is that the water flow is faster at the top versus the bottom of the run and does not uniformly slow down as you progress down the water column.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 02:28 PM
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I think your reading into it too much
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 02:31 PM
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Al, like you, I perceive a slower swing using an intermediate tip vs a floating one, the longer the tip, the greater the effect (all the way to full sink lines). Key being perceive ... as if it sinks into slower water and "sticks" there, offering resistance to the floating belly that wants to pull it laterally. For sure, there is a long-standing history of this tip-effect espoused in the angling literature. Perhaps the mythbusters at ffresearch want to take on this challenge. I might expect the answer depends somewhat on the characteristics of the run being fished, too

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