Now this is a man to have a Drink with - Page 3 - Spey Pages
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 19 votes, 4.11 average. Display Modes
post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 04:19 PM
Registered User
 
freecast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Oregon!
Posts: 187
Great Thread here and hats off to Mr Triggs. Your intentions are noble and much appreciated. In response to Nate, though I do not know you personally, I feel that your intentions also are with good intent. It is good to see such a hot topic get such honest and appropriate discussion. My input to guides is that of course first of all there are no guarantees. Second is that your greatest job is in relating a love and respect of our remaining resources to your client and this includes teaching them about sharing that resource with courtesy. This should (and I am sure usually does) include direct instruction on safe and proper fishing and handling techniques as well as why. Some of my best memories retained from guides have been about local history, geology, floklore, rather than the fish we caught. To finish; no wild fish should be retained, it makes me sick to see the local grocery adds showing 'wild caught' fish. I believe in Karma!!
freecast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 12:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Washington & Idaho
Posts: 136
I have to agree that I've seen some very poor ethics from a handful of fly fishermen in the past couple of years.
Justadd Water is offline  
post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 03:47 AM
AKA: Bob Triggs
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Olympic Peninsula
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteman View Post
Wow, great little read there. Interesting contrast to Howell's words in SM2, river without friends etc.
As an update to this conversation, here is how it has evolved for me. Thank you for your support.

http://olympicpeninsulaflyfishing.bl...lhead-why.html

Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
Onaspey is offline  
post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 11:21 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New YORK
Posts: 242
It looks like the conditions out west are just like new yorks salmon river. I was surprised the rivers on the olympic peninsula had that kind of pressure on them.
shroon is offline  
post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 11:34 AM
PKK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NWBC
Posts: 184
Wish some of the other authors(?), that write about the special places, last kept secrets ect. would do the same. Stop exploiting!
PKK is offline  
post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 01:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Rogue River
Posts: 11,027
Problem here ... Olympic Peninsula is ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by shroon View Post
It looks like the conditions out west are just like new yorks salmon river. I was surprised the rivers on the olympic peninsula had that kind of pressure on them.
To many 'millions' of people inside of a 3 hour drive from same. Repeating an often noted example here but if you just add up the population of the three largest Counties in Washington State (Tacoma-Seattle-Everett) you have more 'people' than live in the entire State of Oregon (no kidding).

Add Oregon's main population centers (Portland-Salem) and you've added another million plus to the mix. End game is just too many folks live within a relatively short drive from the Oly Pen. streams/rivers.




Fred Evans - White City, Oregon
fredaevans is offline  
post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 06:19 PM
aka Craig Pablo
 
flyfishdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 62
Excuse me. While this letter may upon initial glance imply great sacrifice by the author (after the chest-thumping introduction-Editor of a well-known Fly Fishing magazine contacted me about writing about OP destination pieces) which he further discusses in detail on his blog the length of sacrifice he is going to by not guiding for wild winter run steelhead this year, I would like to offer a different viewpoint.
Before I get started, I would like to let everyone know that I do not know Mr. Triggs personally, and this is in no way a personal attack on him. I simply believe that his story (like most stories) is viewable from a multitude of angles, many of which are divergent. In fact, the one I am going to offer is only one of many viewpoints that even I have on the subject stated.
One more qualifier I would like to offer up immediately is that my reply has nothing to do with the regulation allowing for the retention of one wild OP steelhead per year (that is another argument completely) and personally I am a proponent of catch and release of all wild steelhead.
With that out of the way I will allow that Mr. Triggs was a (albeit small) part of the impetus of the exact thing he so vehemently opposes. By his own allowance, he has lived on the OP for 13 years, during which time itís probably a safe assumption that he has guided literally thousands of people. I think itís also a safe assumption that at least some of those people made return trips to the OP, on their own or more likely with family and/or friends. In fact, it is very possible that some of the rude, trash leaving, bobber/slinky throwing douchebags are in fact former clients of Mr. Triggs, if not former clients then at least friends/family of former clients.
My viewpoint (well one anyway, as I said, I have many opposing viewpoints myself on the matter);

Mr. Triggs moved to the OP in 2001, fishing pressure was obviously less than today, steelhead were more plentiful and he, along with a handful of other guides, made a decent living guiding for steelhead and I imagine salmon to extend the season and to make more money. At the same time days off were probably spent (especially in the early and late season when guide days were more limited and pressure even lighter) enjoying many of the OP rivers, especially the lesser-known gems, in relative solitude. At some point, this guy has decided that there are just too few wild steelhead, too many people, many of them rude, to justify guiding and his conscience wouldnít allow him to do it this year. Iím sorry sir, but youíve had your cake, and now you want to eat it as well. (Well, more like youíve had your cake and now you donít want anyone else to have any).
Donít get me wrong, I dislike crowded rivers and getting low-holed as much as the next guy does. I also happen to hate people who litter, especially on/near a river. I also know quite a few guys who throw beads and indicators, some with slinky weights, who are very passionate about their catch and release practices and are strong proponents of catch and release of all wild steelhead. It is difficult to paint a detailed picture with a broad brush.
One of the reasons I am writing this reply is that I happen to be one of those guys in one of the countless drift boats that floated down the Hoh (as well as other OP rivers) this winter. It was my first time ever fishing the fabled waters of the OP for wild winter run fish. It was something I wanted to do since I started chasing steelhead in the Clearwater in Idaho not many years ago. Now that I have had the opportunity to tail a wild OP winter run, to feel the power and determination in the fish, and to share a brief moment with it, I am educating myself on the plight of the wild OP steelhead, as well as wild steelhead throughout its range. I am also reading up on and seriously considering which conservation organizations to join up with i.e. Native Fish Society, Wild Steelhead Coalition, Steelhead Society of BC, etc. All because I made the pilgrimage to the steelhead mecca that is the OP, Iíve stood in the mighty Hoh, Bogachiel, Sol Duc and Calawah and cast flies into their depths and was blessed with the opportunity to tail a couple of wild winter run fish.
I will end my rant with a question for Mr. Triggs. How many years did you guide on the Hoh when escapement return goals were not met? Forgive me if I am wrong or my terminology mistaken, as Iím a relative noob when it comes to the anadromous fish game, but I believe reading something somewhere about the Hoh not meeting the goal for 7 out of the last 10 years, and maybe the last 3 or 4 in a row? If you guided on the Hoh any of the aforementioned years in question what makes 2013/14 any different???
flyfishdude is offline  
post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 06:46 PM
aka Craig Pablo
 
flyfishdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 62
I would like to reiterate that I in no way mean this as a personal attack, just my response to his letter. While I'm sure my response will rustle many feathers, I have no desire for this discussion to degenerate into useless finger pointing and name calling. I thought for quite a while before deciding to post my reply but in the end I feel that Mr. Triggs put himself out there (which I respect) and in doing so opened himself up to honest yet contrary beliefs and opinions. I hope contrary replies and opinions will be a catalyst for further discussion. I am actually glad this topic stirs this much emotion in so many people....
flyfishdude is offline  
post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 09:47 PM
AKA: Bob Triggs
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Olympic Peninsula
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishdude View Post
I would like to reiterate that I in no way mean this as a personal attack, just my response to his letter. While I'm sure my response will rustle many feathers, I have no desire for this discussion to degenerate into useless finger pointing and name calling. I thought for quite a while before deciding to post my reply but in the end I feel that Mr. Triggs put himself out there (which I respect) and in doing so opened himself up to honest yet contrary beliefs and opinions. I hope contrary replies and opinions will be a catalyst for further discussion. I am actually glad this topic stirs this much emotion in so many people....
Craig, You are right- You don't know me. Your assumptions are utterly incorrect. Your "question" reeks of accusation. You are wrong.

Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
Onaspey is offline  
post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 01:37 AM
aka Craig Pablo
 
flyfishdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onaspey View Post
Craig, You are right- You don't know me. Your assumptions are utterly incorrect. Your "question" reeks of accusation. You are wrong.
My question, no matter how accusatory, is legitimate and your failure to answer it speaks volumes. As for my assumptions, really, Bob, really? My assumption that you have guided north of 1,000 people in your career is utterly incorrect? You put yourself out there when you wrote your blog post and published the letter that you wrote to the editor, and at that moment opened yourself up to this very type of question....
flyfishdude is offline  
post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 02:43 AM
aka Craig Pablo
 
flyfishdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onaspey View Post
You are wrong.
Am I wrong Bob? Why don't we let your words speak here....

http://www.searunmap.com/washington-...ement-graphic/

Your reply to the above article:

Bob Triggs
December 27, 2013 | Reply

Bearing in mind that in most cases the ďescapement goalsĒ represent only a small percentage of known historic abundance of these wild fish. And many of the runs are failing this now. Once again the Hoh River wild winter run steelhead did not meet the escapement goals, for the last winter run, in 2012.


Yet this from your blog, posted on February 13, 2013:

I am guiding for winter Steelhead all winter here on the west-end Olympic Peninsula coastal rivers. We do walk and wade, fair chase, catch & release, fly fishing only trips. This is traditional fly fishing, with single-handed or two-handed rods, wet fly swing. We aren't in a hurry, it is supposed to be fun. We have a good time and we see some beautiful water, and we work some nice runs in a day, often on more than one river. And we do catch a few sometimes. I am happy to provide this opportunity. Drop me a note or a phone call if you would like to discuss coming out to fish with me. Make sure to leave a return number on the recording.

I believe we have found what reeks....
flyfishdude is offline  
post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 04:25 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: PNW
Posts: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishdude View Post
My question, no matter how accusatory, is legitimate and your failure to answer it speaks volumes. As for my assumptions, really, Bob, really? My assumption that you have guided north of 1,000 people in your career is utterly incorrect? You put yourself out there when you wrote your blog post and published the letter that you wrote to the editor, and at that moment opened yourself up to this very type of question....
Kettle, meet Pot. And despite what you say, your posts above make it a personal attack, which I can only guess originates from:

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/...-forest.96631/

All I can say is that the pressure in the OP during the late winter is analogous to the Smithers area in the fall. Just as many of on this site won't mention certain BC rivers or post trophy shots, there are many in WA who feel the same way. I don't know Bob directly but I do know that you will never find him posting trophy shots of his client's catches. I believe that's because he cares enough about the resource to forego doing so (and I've seen him active in several of the organizations you reference). Bob has put in his time and resources towards conservation, whereas you've just begun contemplating it.

Congratulations on your fish, but you also need to understand where people like Bob and several who didn't respond so kindly to your post on the above link are coming from.

Last edited by ChrisC; 03-11-2014 at 12:05 PM.
ChrisC is offline  
post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 07:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: PNW
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishdude View Post
Am I wrong Bob? Why don't we let your words speak here....

http://www.searunmap.com/washington-...ement-graphic/

Your reply to the above article:

Bob Triggs
December 27, 2013 | Reply

Bearing in mind that in most cases the “escapement goals” represent only a small percentage of known historic abundance of these wild fish. And many of the runs are failing this now. Once again the Hoh River wild winter run steelhead did not meet the escapement goals, for the last winter run, in 2012.


Yet this from your blog, posted on February 13, 2013:

I am guiding for winter Steelhead all winter here on the west-end Olympic Peninsula coastal rivers. We do walk and wade, fair chase, catch & release, fly fishing only trips. This is traditional fly fishing, with single-handed or two-handed rods, wet fly swing. We aren't in a hurry, it is supposed to be fun. We have a good time and we see some beautiful water, and we work some nice runs in a day, often on more than one river. And we do catch a few sometimes. I am happy to provide this opportunity. Drop me a note or a phone call if you would like to discuss coming out to fish with me. Make sure to leave a return number on the recording.

I believe we have found what reeks....
you should really stop while you are behind. Not having met Mr. Triggs (sorry Bob) you really do not know jack.

edit: as ChrisC pointed out above, why don't you actually do something for the good of the fish on the OP and not just something to stroke your own ego (post pics online and talk about a guide you do not know **** about). I'll gladly go over reason why I know for a fact Bob Triggs is a better person than you and all i'm judging you from are a blog and forum posts. Srsly? Dick in KANE for a burger? all i need to know

Last edited by jake-e-boy; 03-11-2014 at 08:31 AM.
jake-e-boy is offline  
post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 08:06 PM
aka Craig Pablo
 
flyfishdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Western Montana
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onaspey View Post
Craig, You are right- You don't know me. Your assumptions are utterly incorrect. Your "question" reeks of accusation. You are wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Kettle, meet Pot. And despite what you say, your posts above make it a personal attack, which I can only guess originates from:

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/...-forest.96631/

All I can say is that the pressure in the OP during the late winter is analogous to the Smithers area in the fall. Just as many of on this site won't mention certain BC rivers or post trophy shots, there are many in WA who feel the same way. I don't know Bob directly but I do know that you will never find him posting trophy shots of his client's catches. I believe that's because he cares enough about the resource to forego doing so (and I've seen him active in several of the organizations you reference). Bob has put in his time and resources towards conservation, whereas you've just begun contemplating it.

Congratulations on your fish, but you also need to understand where people like Bob and several who didn't respond so kindly to your post on the above link are coming from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onaspey View Post
Craig, You are right- You don't know me. Your assumptions are utterly incorrect. Your "question" reeks of accusation. You are wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
Kettle, meet Pot.

http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/...-forest.96631/

All I can say is that the pressure in the OP during the late winter is analogous to the Smithers area in the fall. Just as many of on this site won't mention certain BC rivers or post trophy shots, there are many in WA who feel the same way. I don't know Bob directly but I do know that you will never find him posting trophy shots of his client's catches. I believe that's because he cares enough about the resource to forego doing so. Furthermore, I also know that he has put in his time and resources towards conservation, whereas you've begun contemplating it (which I think that it's great that you are).

Congratulations on your fish, but you also need to understand where people like Bob and several who didn't respond so kindly to your post on the above link are coming from.
Chris,
First of all I fully admitted in my original post to being part of the problem regarding pressure on the OP, guilty as charged. I only began chasing steelhead not very long ago in Idaho and only recently learned more about the wild winter run steelhead of the OP, the allure of hooking one, their history and the plight they face. I am a prime example of "positive pressure" on a river, if there is in fact such a thing. After making the journey and doing some research and educating myself, I am going to become a member of the WSC, probably the Native Fish Society and perhaps even the Steelhead Society of BC. That would have probably never happened had I plied the waters of the OP.

I also chose to share one picture of the first wild OP winter run steelhead I ever had the pleasure to tail. It wasn't a "glory" shot, a grip and grin or hero shot, in fact i purposely wanted to show only the fish, as it was (and is) the hero in all of these endeavors. I was also careful not to show any details that could have given away my location.

Utilizing the "pot calling the kettle black" euphemism is a little off base here I believe.


I also feel the need to clarify my point. My intention was never to call out Mr. Triggs' passion, dedication or conservation efforts in regards to wild steelhead. What I did (and continue) to call out is Mr. Triggs' chest-thumping in regards to his recent decision to not "out" the OP in a solicited destination article for a well known fly fishing magazine, as well as his decision this year to not guide for wild winter run fish on the OP. I still contend that he was a part of the very problem that he is so opposed to now, increased pressure on wild winter run steelhead on the OP, it's black and white. In one comment he states Hoh river did not (again) reach escapement goals in 2012, yet actively solicited people to come to the OP and fish for winter steelhead with him. I'm sorry, you can't have it both ways.


Chris,

I honestly appreciate your candor, as well as thoughtful discussion. I think we actually probably align on many issues, I just saw a post from a different viewpoint and put it out there.
flyfishdude is offline  
post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 08:45 PM
AKA: Bob Triggs
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Olympic Peninsula
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishdude View Post
I also feel the need to clarify my point. My intention was never to call out Mr. Triggs' passion, dedication or conservation efforts in regards to wild steelhead. What I did (and continue) to call out is Mr. Triggs' chest-thumping in regards to his recent decision to not "out" the OP in a solicited destination article for a well known fly fishing magazine, as well as his decision this year to not guide for wild winter run fish on the OP. I still contend that he was a part of the very problem that he is so opposed to now, increased pressure on wild winter run steelhead on the OP, it's black and white. In one comment he states Hoh river did not (again) reach escapement goals in 2012, yet actively solicited people to come to the OP and fish for winter steelhead with him. I'm sorry, you can't have it both ways.
For a factual context I will point out here that the annual O.P. steelhead spawner surveys begin sometime around September, and they continue to hike and boat the rivers and smaller streams here through late spring, counting spawning fish. There is a time lag of some weeks or months before we get the final numbers, usually some time in early summer, sometimes later. My posted offering of steelhead fishing trips in February of 2013 would not have had any information on the final run counts for that season until well after the season ended that spring. My comments about the failed 2012-2013 spawner escapements on the Hoh River were posted ten months later. The difference between one "being a part of the problem", and being a part of the solution, are only a decision away for any one of us. You can't have it both ways either.

Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
Onaspey is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Spey Pages forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Man 'O Man you order from the Red Shed ... fredaevans General 9 04-30-2013 07:18 PM
do you drink beer? Attack General 18 05-19-2009 11:16 AM
Best alcohol-free drink speyrd General 18 12-29-2003 07:09 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome