Now this is a man to have a Drink with - Page 2 - Spey Pages
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 19 votes, 4.11 average. Display Modes
post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 09:10 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The River
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
“A fly fisherman ought to have an honest job - and be careful with the internet”
Like what, a lawyer?

Last edited by camodrifter; 08-01-2013 at 09:31 PM.
camodrifter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 10:57 PM
Addicted and Avid
 
SpeyHermit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Salmon River NY Lake Champlain Tribs
Posts: 583
Very excellent article Mr. Triggs!

SpeyHermit

"Fishing is not a matter of life or death, it's more important than that."
SpeyHermit is offline  
post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 12:02 AM
Registered User
 
CWITroutBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 169
Word-smithing (and philosophical insight) at its near finest. Thanks for the post. Nicely done. I too hope it is published.

"The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable . . . a perpetual series of occasions for hope."
- John Buchan, 1st Baron Tweedsmuir
CWITroutBum is offline  
post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 12:13 AM
registered text offender
 
matuka mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orewashingontanaho
Posts: 1,297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idleyld View Post
Not to go on a guide bashing spree because there are bad apples in every bunch, but this is always very frustrating to me as well. Guides are supposed to be stewards of the resource, and river ethics are a huge part of the experience. When guides display sub-par behavior on the river, it sets a very poor example for their clients. Just because they are trying to make a buck doesn't give them anymore right to the water than anyone else.

The letter was very well written and mirrors my thoughts concerning the "rivers with friends" sentiment. This is one gentleman I will be looking up if I ever need a OP guide...
ditto. the dangerous breed also extends to guides. when i hear that all their clients get into so many fish, and see their fish handling slills, i cringe. i like sparlys law, for that reson, and many others, but why should treble hooks, and barbs even be leagal where wild steelhead swim. guides at the very least should be voluntarily pinching barbs, and fishing smaller single hooks. a steward of the resource is what every guide should be, but frankly too many hobby guides that dont have an interest in the long term health of the fishery. all you have to be is a salesman, or maybe just a blowhard to guide these days. so many great , career guides, displaced by the hobbyists, just out to make the quick buck, and feel like a big shot. yes, we all can catch more fish if we oly uuse the easiest methods, but should so many people be catching so many fish anyway ? afterall, dynamite gets you even more, but is outlawed because its too effective. a combination of umpqua and deschutes regs, and sparkys law would put a tremendous dent in the number of wild fish handled and harmed. how would that be bad ? who would be pissed exept those who abuse the resource anyway ?

insta-release not Insta-gram !!

Dog is my co-pilot !
matuka mike is offline  
post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-05-2013, 05:13 PM
M.F. Steel Diamond
 
firsttube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hoh River
Posts: 99
good letter and definitely expresses some of my own sentiments. but

i think there were four days last year that saw over 80 boats and just as many bank anglers, not all of them were flyfisherpeople. many were there to bonk their one wild steelhead for the year. about 1/4 of the people by my calculations. i also saw 6 jet boats with drift nets hanging off the side.
definitely lot of shiny new rigs from seattle and montana... but i don't think the trash in the brush is from the fly fishermen..
an "honest" job like logging...
but its good that people will go back to seattle and montana and canada and japan and texas? and think about these poor fish that everyone is angling for and dip into their accounts and try to buy some second growth timber along the bank that can't be harvested in our lifetime or toss a few bucks to the tribes to pull out their nets or even to pay the feds to pull out the nets...olympic nat'l park is gettin' smart. we're not sure who we're going to affect here but i guarantee you its better than letting things go on the way they have. ha.. what is it they like to say around here "shoulda been here in the 80's".. how selfish. it sucks to know that one day these rivers will be closed and we'll be jobless... but that's why we're river rats.
it's also tough when you're a sportswriter and 4 articles in four separate magazines come out about "your" river. sounds like triggs should spend some more time on the queets and quinault....
thats what we need is more native guides out here... make it more profitable to catch and release fish than to allow derelict fishing nets killing 5 or even 40 fish.
there's a positive to all of the negative. and there's 25lbers out there. man i can't fukin wait for winter.
firsttube is offline  
post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-06-2013, 09:17 PM
AKA: Bob Triggs
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Olympic Peninsula
Posts: 8
I wanted to thank you for your mostly kind comments. This was something that I agonized over a bit. The offer to write these "destination" articles came in around late winter season, while I was actually out on the rivers. What struck me was that I was seeing things out here that I had not seen, at a level I had not before witnessed in the time I have been out here, coinciding with an opportunity to promote it all just that much more. We can not blame all of this on magazines and the internet etc. Surely they do share some of the responsibility, as does the "industry", along with all of us anglers who are out here at the end of the road, chasing the last wild fish.

Our fisheries managers have had many opportunities to reduce our angling impacts on the fish. And yet they still hold out for the Maximum Sustained Harvest models. Despite so much public call for an end to the harvest of wild steelhead, it continues. And each involved party blames the other, in an endless charade of righteous accusations, while the fish are still being killed off faster than they can spawn or recover. Part of this is the politics of fish management, the inside deals of political pressure, much of this is a reflection of the regional social culture. Many people still want to kill these fish. And they do, legally and illegally.

Personally I have come to a point where I barely ever fish for wild steelhead here myself anymore. When we see that some 80-90% of the wild steelhead escapements, (those fish that have survived the tribal netting and seals etc.), are caught and handled by upriver recreational fishermen, that is hard to imagine. And coupled with the fact that the escapement goals are not being met very often, for example the Hoh River, with repeated failures in those runs over the past years, it is harder to justify putting added pressure on those fish. No matter what is legal, there is a question of individual responsibility. So I decided to go very easy on these wild fish myself. And that has been my own personal and professional approach the entire time that I have been out here. The more that I have witnessed and the more that I have learned, the more conservative I have become in my own approach to the fishing, and the guiding, and advertising etc., out here. So this was just one more step in that direction for me.

I feel that each one of us needs to be real about our own impacts, in relationship to the fishing that we are doing, the status of the fish etc., and what our own goals are. This is where we can have the greatest immediate effect. Sometimes things are not what they seem. And there are powerful business interests in some areas of fishing, including recreational fishing, fly fishing etc., that have all of their eggs invested in this one little basket, the wild steelhead. I believe that it has all gone too far. Especially out here. And it may have been so long ago. As I said before, we may already have lost more than we yet know. It's a damned shame.
http://olympicpeninsulaflyfishing.blogspot.com

Stop Killing Wild Steelhead!
Onaspey is offline  
post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 02:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dreaming of wild rivers and wilder fish
Posts: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onaspey View Post
Our fisheries managers have had many opportunities to reduce our angling impacts on the fish. And yet they still hold out for the Maximum Sustained Harvest models. Despite so much public call for an end to the harvest of wild steelhead, it continues. And each involved party blames the other, in an endless charade of righteous accusations, while the fish are still being killed off faster than they can spawn or recover. Part of this is the politics of fish management, the inside deals of political pressure, much of this is a reflection of the regional social culture. Many people still want to kill these fish. And they do, legally and illegally.
Once again Bob, I completely agree. With the current status of native steelhead populations in the Pac NW, I do not understand how we can continue to kill these fish. There are a few rivers in Southern Oregon where harvest of native winter steelhead is still allowed, with several more streams currently on the discussion table to be reopened to harvest of same. All of this in the name of ODFW's favorite catch phrase, "opportunity". I am not exactly sure when "opportunity" became synonymous with harvest, but it is sickening at best to see our fisheries managed according to the status quo.

I think your signature line sums it up nicely.

Steve
Idleyld is offline  
post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 05:29 PM
MC
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Teton River, South Fork of the Snake, Henry's Fork
Posts: 195
Great letter

That is a great letter, Bob. Even if it doesn't get published, at least the publisher/editor will read it.

P.S. I have had a drink with (and fished under the guidance of) Bob Triggs and he is every bit the stand-up guy that his letter shows he is.

MC (Mike Commins)
mcommins is offline  
post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 05:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hebo
Posts: 616
Bob -

I didn't realize you were on Speypages. Thanks for your letter, the additional posts, and your contributions to the sport. I hope it pays you back one-hundred fold.
Read1t48 is offline  
post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-07-2013, 07:31 PM
Registered User
 
Nate Bailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rogue River, Williamson
Posts: 909
Not sure how its assumed that if you fish with an indicator and heavy fly that your killing every fish you catch. The Rogue has a strong run of wild fish, so much so that it allows one to be kept at certain times of the year, but I have yet to see any of the Nymph running Guides keep fish. Maybe my perspective is skewed, but I agree with the Scott Howell's of the world as I have seen the effects of how fish benefit from having people loving them, even if those people use big rods with bobbers, or dare I say Gear. It all adds up to the person holding the rod, not the rod.

"I feel that each one of us needs to be real about our own impacts, in relationship to the fishing that we are doing, the status of the fish etc., and what our own goals are. This is where we can have the greatest immediate effect. Sometimes things are not what they seem. And there are powerful business interests in some areas of fishing, including recreational fishing, fly fishing etc., that have all of their eggs invested in this one little basket, the wild steelhead. I believe that it has all gone too far. Especially out here. And it may have been so long ago. As I said before, we may already have lost more than we yet know. It's a damned shame."

With the utmost respect I quote you, but as your words caused inner reflection for me maybe mine will do the same for you, just by the act of guiding you also have promoted the waters you fish, you are not seperate from the industry you talk so ill of, but you are a part of it, ethical yes, but part of that "business interest" also. Just food for thought. Nate
Nate Bailey is offline  
post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 12-26-2013, 08:11 AM
Registered User
 
Whalebones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Riaching out to the salmon and steel of the world...
Posts: 95
Well said.....form the other side of the fence.
Whalebones is offline  
post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 02:51 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: BC/WA
Posts: 100
I have the utmost respect for Mr. Triggs after reading his response and the fact that he appears to be a man on his words. He covered a lot of ground in that editorial, most of which I have to agree with. I've spent quite a bit of time in that area and have witnessed most of what Bob has mentioned.

As with most things these days, there really isn't any simple answer to the problem unfortunately. If I had to point the finger in one direction, it would simply be the reduction in opportunity elsewhere that has driven pressure to the last "stronghold". In this day and age, the unfortunate thing is that someone else will just take the torch where Mr. Triggs left it and write the article about "hooking a dozen winter steelhead up to 20 pounds in a day on the Queets", or some other ridiculous portrayal that completely misses the reality of the situation. There is such a fine line between generating support for a fishery and allowing it to be "loved to death"...and when you toe that line you're not really sure which side things will end up on.

There is just a general lack of respect that seems pervasive out here...even the most simplistic stuff. Last year I found no fewer than 6 snagged flies from folks that didn't feel the need to pinch the barbs on their hooks. Maybe 1 or 2 simply forgot, but that doesn't account for the others. It's a truly sickening feeling to pull into a spot on the Sol Duc, hike a lightly used trail to the river and pass a guy carrying a dead wild hen back to his truck...and simply have to bite your tongue because he's completely within his legal rights to kill that fish. I've always felt that local law enforcement could simply setup a creel check roadblock on the Lower Hoh Road on a weekend in early February and bust numerous people keeping wild fish before the February 15th "opener"...they just don't have the desire or resources to do so though.

Last winter a few individuals from the local guide's association decided to start collecting wild fish for a brood stock program they somehow thought would get going without even apparently having state approval or a place to collect eggs or raise the fry. These guys would then proceed to carry two or three wild hens down the river in PVC tubes hanging off the side of their boat hoping they'd have a place to take them - fish taken off the spawning grounds which had already passed the native net fishery for absolutely nothing.

A great number of the guides that operate in the area are "itinerant" and have essentially no skin in the game when it comes to the future of the fishery. I think that needs to change in some way - perhaps a permitting system needs to be enacted that favors guides residing in the area. On the Peninsula there are stories of guys who spend a grand total of 5 days on one of the local rivers before they start taking people's money. That said, there are a number of truly exceptional guides that operate in the area as well - some of the best steelhead guides you'll find anywhere in fact. Do your research and you'll find them. One of them is a trained biologist that collects scale samples from every wild fish his clients catch - his data has provided the WDFW with the only life history database for steelhead in the area.

On some days in March, it truly does feel like a free-for-all on some of these rivers...a sort of "gold rush" mentality where everyone is making a run for their claim and anything goes. It's hard not to chuckle when you drive 101 headed north between the Hoh and Forks at 5:30AM and count 25 rigs loaded with gear and boats heading south...most of them probably unaware that two dozen other rigs constituting at least 50 anglers are ahead of them.

If I knew that these people all understood the state of the resource, respected it, the fish and each other, I might be inclined to say "the more the merrier" but that's not really the case in this situation.

What this all is building up to is the closure of these rivers within the next decade unless things change dramatically. Not sure where everyone will go after that...really aren't too many other places. If I was a stronger willed man I'd probably be able to successfully convince myself that my own impact is too great and simply stay away - maybe one of these days that will happen. I bet there will be someone else willing to pick up the torch and keep running with it until the last wild fish turns gravel out here though.
sleestak is offline  
post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 01:31 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern BC
Posts: 904
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWhiteman View Post
Think it takes a collective approach (gear guys, fly guys, recreational users etc.) to determine the carrying capacity of the river and to not exceed that.
And how are we going to accomplish that?

In nature, the rules are clear. There is population control. Animals are allowed to use what they need to survive but their numbers are regulated by the conditions of the environment and the sources of food.

In our sophisticated society, our politicians, unable to deal with the population increase, are trying to convince us that the rules of nature do not apply to humans. They have devised other methods to "regulate" use of resources which are based on the God they cherish, Mr $.

They will teach you, pretty soon, that in order to use you need to pay. The more humans out there, the higher the fees will be. Till the point of having just a small minority enjoy the outdoors. This small minority, in fact will also happen to have the time and resources to enjoy fishing and hunting to the fullest, as they will have lots of spare time. The rest, us the peasants, will have to toil for them and will never be able to afford a fishing trip or to "buy a riverfront property" (a concept totally alien to me).

Seeing the rivers congested with fishermen is not the worst. The worst is, that the quality of our environment on the planet as a whole gets destroyed and compromised with the speed of the population increase.

You will be trying to fight residential developments at the Whiteman's Creek mouth. We will be fighting Enbridge, the tar sands, the Trans Canada, Shell and their projects for the Skeena but while we are doing so a number of similarly destructive projects will go under the radar and get shoved in our ***. And then we have "the accidents" like the gulf of Mexico, the many oil spills and finally the effects of the already changing climate.

We simply cannot keep up with all the greed that this mass expansion has generated.

"The good old times" will only come back in our dreams.
Cougar is offline  
post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 02:25 PM
Releasing the wild ones
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: British Columbia and the Notty
Posts: 220
I always laugh about the concept of "friends" on the river if you are a catch and release angler that does not make you a friend of the river you are taking and not giving anything back. Even if only 1% of all released fish die you are at a negative, if 100% of every fish you release survive you are at a net 0. The author talks about the joy of doing steam rehab being as rewarding as a day on the river with a fly rod in hand for that I concur.

You want to be a friend? Then get involved. Here in the west we have the Steelhead Society of BC and the Wild Fish Society back on the Great Lakes you have the Nottawasaga Steelheaders, Credit River Anglers Association, Friends of the Grand and the North Shore Steelhead Association. For the cost of less than a tank of gas you can become a true friend and give something back

Chris Atkinson
aka chromerman
chromerman is offline  
post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 12-29-2013, 03:21 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northern BC
Posts: 904
Send a message via Yahoo to Cougar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chromerman View Post
For the cost of less than a tank of gas you can become a true friend and give something back
Chris , I am not a member yet.

I may be short sighted in this, but my opinion is that the best a person can do is leave the river alone.

All our work is never going to offset the impacts of the resource development that is going on.

Those who live in areas where the rivers are made private will find even less reason to devote time and effort into something which is not theirs any more.
Cougar is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Spey Pages forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Man 'O Man you order from the Red Shed ... fredaevans General 9 04-30-2013 07:18 PM
do you drink beer? Attack General 18 05-19-2009 11:16 AM
Best alcohol-free drink speyrd General 18 12-29-2003 07:09 PM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome