Potential Closures for access on the Skeena by Gitxsan - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Potential Closures for access on the Skeena by Gitxsan

Bob Hooton on Potential Closures for access on the Skeena by Gitxsan:

https://steelheadvoices.com/?p=1957
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 10:36 AM
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Bob Hooton should stop writing his notes as they are fool of anger and hate ( sounds familiar…….??)

Waste by FN happens time to time, this are extreme examples like an example of an angler not handing Steelhead properly.

For example, when being former head /biologist in BC i , he set up Morice Town recapture. So instead FN gill netting they are running 5-6 times a day a very short , SMALL MESH, net and swipe over small area is quick and short. All Steelhead are released.

The stress Steelhead experience is far smaller than fighting at the end of fly line. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and recapture is dome only doing day light and affects a small portion of Steelhead.

Now he does not like it............The alternative would be FN gill-netting everting as they have right to do so.

Every year he shows photos of gill-net boat run by FN in the mouth of Skeena. Every year there are 2-3 opinings for FN and typically only 2-4 boats participate each day.

For comparison, when Sockeye run is good ( have not been for the last 3 years) that are 5-8 commercial openings and each has 120-160 boats, spread from the mouth up to 3-5 km into the Pacific !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

As we can see, any impact of FN ( 2-4 boats/ 2-3 openings) is marginal at best. Still Bob write about is as if is a major impact. Even if FN run few boats few times a season when Steelhead run is weak, they catch is proportional to Steelhead run intensity , so at best 1 Steelhead is landed per boat / per day.


Hate and anger of Bob crates that worst messaging one can get.

BTW, this type of proposal has been submitted by FN during the last several years.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 10:47 AM
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Wow!

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolen View Post
Bob Hooton should stop writing his notes as they are fool of anger and hate ( sounds familiar…….??)

Waste by FN happens time to time, this are extreme examples like an example of an angler not handing Steelhead properly.

For example, when being former head /biologist in BC i , he set up Morice Town recapture. So instead FN gill netting they are running 5-6 times a day a very short , SMALL MESH, net and swipe over small area is quick and short. All Steelhead are released.

The stress Steelhead experience is far smaller than fighting at the end of fly line. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and recapture is dome only doing day light and affects a small portion of Steelhead.

Now he does not like it............The alternative would be FN gill-netting everting as they have right to do so.

Every year he shows photos of gill-net boat run by FN in the mouth of Skeena. Every year there are 2-3 opinings for FN and typically only 2-4 boats participate each day.

For comparison, when Sockeye run is good ( have not been for the last 3 years) that are 5-8 commercial openings and each has 120-160 boats, spread from the mouth up to 3-5 km into the Pacific !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

As we can see, any impact of FN ( 2-4 boats/ 2-3 openings) is marginal at best. Still Bob write about is as if is a major impact. Even if FN run few boats few times a season when Steelhead run is weak, they catch is proportional to Steelhead run intensity , so at best 1 Steelhead is landed per boat / per day.


Hate and anger of Bob crates that worst messaging one can get.
Agree with Bolen

I've lived in Terrace
The FN people are not fools, nor is the DFO, nor the average fisherman on the Skeena.
No one is out to take the salmon and steelhead runs to extinction.

Yes there is waste.
And bad apples everywhere.
But the people of the North know the value of the salmon and steelhead to the region.
In the main they are looking after the fish.

We need more focus on solutions not on problems
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 11:10 AM
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For example, FN should push for what many anglers and some within BC Ministry has been trying to do: Issue regulation and penalty for not keeping fish ( which us not intended for harvest) in water.

It would be nice if FN push for keeping Fish in water.

Also, Based on the latter issue by Gitxan in the above link, there is concern about warm and low water .

The province has already addressed water temperature issue starting 2018. If water temp gets warmer, constant 16 C ( 60-61F) or higher waters will be closed until an average temp drops. This is why all rivers ( Skeena and tributary) have temps gauges in many locations.

BTW, WHY anyone would fish anyway with water temps above 16 C ( 61F) ?????. Fish does not bit well , mortality rate is hight, does to fight well and walking on the gravel bar with 25 C+ sunny sky is a nightmare anyway.


Constant water temp above 16 C = more Glaciar melting, white/silty water even in absence of rain !!!!!!!!

Also, FN has been negotiation the treaty for quite some time. The biggest items are logging leases, railroad, Gas-line and fish is just bargaining card...........

Last edited by bolen; 03-06-2020 at 11:59 AM.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-06-2020, 11:29 AM
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Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing that. I really don’t have near enough contextual understanding of the history or details here to pass judgment one way or another. One bit that concerns me was the specific point that they do not recognize fishing as “sport”, this came immediately after the item stating “no playing or wastage of fish”. This has been an issue of contention here in the USA as well.
While I do not particularly agree with their perspective on this issue, I do see it as an an ongoing obstacle to better cooperation (which could be beneficial to all parties!). I do think they have a pretty persuasive position with the greater public, a perspective that we would be foolish to ignore. I did get the sense that this article by Mr. Hooten wasn’t particularly effective at addressing those concerns. Again, not knowing the full background story here I could be off base! My opinion here is general, and purely from a strategic, diplomatic perspective. I think it is risky to completely discount the perspectives of many indigenous populations (and quite a few in the non native population), the perspective that we are just harassing fish for no good reason.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-11-2020, 11:48 PM
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Wow racist Bob Hooton being a racist again, go figure. The less attention this goofball gets the better as far as I’m concerned.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2020, 12:29 AM
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Wow racist Bob Hooton being a racist again, go figure. The less attention this goofball gets the better as far as I’m concerned.
I am surprised he does not have a Twitter account ...........It would allow him to draw even more attention to himself.........

One time, I tried to rise an issue base on well known facts on his blog, and guess what !!!!!!

He censorship himself comments and select what is allowed on the blog

His side should be re-named to Fox News and Bob Hooton Voices
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2020, 11:26 AM
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I cant really comment on the Skeena region as I only fish its systems 4 weeks a year at best. Would fish it more but finding time in this world is not easy. However, in my home waters, FN wastage of fish is rampant. Its far more than just a few bad apples. When DFO and BCCO pick up over 200 ghost nets a season, investigate hundreds of dumped and spoiled fish along shorelines and in the bush, are having to do night patrols on river to combat poaching, its a problem. And if anyone thinks that FN can police their own fisherman, you are kidding yourselves. Personally though, I don't care if the Gov gives total control of the Skeena to the Gitxsan. A transfer of power from one Gov to another. I mean hell, really, can they do any worse with the fishery than DFO?.....lol

As long as I still have access to the river to swing flys, Id be willing to buy my lic from the First Nations. And that right there, is the real issue. Access. I've been watching the CMT meetings with the Hereditary Gitxsan Gov online (its streamed via FB every second Thursday of the month). A few of the Chiefs are level headed, a few arnt (they are no different than any other Gov....lol). Rules went into play last year with having to ask permission to cross Rez lands to access the river. They want all access in their traditional territory closed to non-Native sports fisherman (or as Chief Norm calls, The White Man). Basically the short of it, they want to shut down all access to the Skeena and tribs in their traditional territory. Period. However, there is in-fighting. Some of the members, for instance on the Kispiox, are guides. These guys make a living guiding the "white man" on their territory. There is also the pay to play deal. Some back room deals with lodges ($$$ obviously).

At the end of the day, and this is my personal opinion, give it to them. Give it all to them. But under one condition. That access for non Native fisherman is not restricted. As I said above. Transfer all licensing to the Git. I want to go fish in their turf for a week, I buy my steelhead lic from them ,and the current Provincial pricing system stays the same. Non of this $100 a day f-ing BS. Make them responsible for all river maint and care (of the fishery). Do the same with hunting. Don't kid yourselves people. This fight is all about control and nothing else.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2020, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Steelheadfreak View Post
I cant really comment on the Skeena region as I only fish its systems 4 weeks a year at best. Would fish it more but finding time in this world is not easy. However, in my home waters, FN wastage of fish is rampant. Its far more than just a few bad apples. When DFO and BCCO pick up over 200 ghost nets a season, investigate hundreds of dumped and spoiled fish along shorelines and in the bush, are having to do night patrols on river to combat poaching, its a problem. And if anyone thinks that FN can police their own fisherman, you are kidding yourselves. Personally though, I don't care if the Gov gives total control of the Skeena to the Gitxsan. A transfer of power from one Gov to another. I mean hell, really, can they do any worse with the fishery than DFO?.....lol

As long as I still have access to the river to swing flys, Id be willing to buy my lic from the First Nations. And that right there, is the real issue. Access. I've been watching the CMT meetings with the Hereditary Gitxsan Gov online (its streamed via FB every second Thursday of the month). A few of the Chiefs are level headed, a few arnt (they are no different than any other Gov....lol). Rules went into play last year with having to ask permission to cross Rez lands to access the river. They want all access in their traditional territory closed to non-Native sports fisherman (or as Chief Norm calls, The White Man). Basically the short of it, they want to shut down all access to the Skeena and tribs in their traditional territory. Period. However, there is in-fighting. Some of the members, for instance on the Kispiox, are guides. These guys make a living guiding the "white man" on their territory. There is also the pay to play deal. Some back room deals with lodges ($$$ obviously).

At the end of the day, and this is my personal opinion, give it to them. Give it all to them. But under one condition. That access for non Native fisherman is not restricted. As I said above. Transfer all licensing to the Git. I want to go fish in their turf for a week, I buy my steelhead lic from them ,and the current Provincial pricing system stays the same. Non of this $100 a day f-ing BS. Make them responsible for all river maint and care (of the fishery). Do the same with hunting. Don't kid yourselves people. This fight is all about control and nothing else.
Completely agree. The amount of money generated by licensing fees should be much more evenly dispersed. I would 110% happily pay First Nations the licensing fees, have been saying this for a while now!

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2020, 01:28 PM
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Lol, when were those photos taken on the blog? 1985? Nice current 35 year old evidence....

Inflammatory rhetoric blasted off into the black hole of the internet is neither useful or productive.

The real issue is land rights, and is crown land in trad territories no longer crown (public) land? These notions are starting to take foot and could change how we recreate in BC in a big way. Where do the lines get draw, literally and figuratively, and how slippery can the slope get? Pretty complex issue with multiple stakeholders and concerns.

Best way to voice your concern is to get on a recognized regional stakeholder group so your voice can be heard and also learn the complex issues first hand, not from news articles and 'blogs'.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2020, 01:31 PM
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Completely agree. The amount of money generated by licensing fees should be much more evenly dispersed. I would 110% happily pay First Nations the licensing fees, have been saying this for a while now!
It's easy to implement. Create classified waters, and subsequent licencing fees can be distributed as such. Those monies can be limited for use of watershed stewardship.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2020, 04:16 PM
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It's easy to implement. Create classified waters, and subsequent licencing fees can be distributed as such. Those monies can be limited for use of watershed stewardship.
Absolutely. A much more reasonable management strategy for the long term.

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-12-2020, 04:35 PM
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It's easy to implement. Create classified waters, and subsequent licencing fees can be distributed as such. Those monies can be limited for use of watershed stewardship.
Classify water fee ( $ 20 on Skeena for example) has bot been changed for at least 10 years. I would not be surprised to see increase to like $ 30. The reason they charge $ 100-200 on certain runs on Kispiox, is b/c some folks, specially those coming form Europe, want to catch fish and these run in lower Kispiox are quite productive.

BTW, Skeena drainage below Cedarville is not even Gitxsan territory, so do a good part of Bulkey.

Another part of the issue is that last year DFO allowed for sport fishing in Salt water ( after fresh water closure) and Gitxsan wanted to close both salt and fresh waters. At the same time FN voluntarily increased bar for Sockeye run from 400 k to 600k before they can do subsistence fishing

Last year it was purely DFO fault.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-14-2020, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bolen View Post
I am surprised he does not have a Twitter account ...........It would allow him to draw even more attention to himself.........

One time, I tried to rise an issue base on well known facts on his blog, and guess what !!!!!!

He censorship himself comments and select what is allowed on the blog

His side should be re-named to Fox News and Bob Hooton Voices
Perhaps MSNBC and Bob Hooten Voices. They're just as bad from the other side!!
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