Bristol Bay/EPA situation - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Bristol Bay/EPA situation

Can someone with a better understanding of the situation than my Canadian self explain the implications/potential outcomes of this apparent intervention by Trump in the Bristol Bay project and the subsequent removal of the EPA protection? Seems extremely scary to me.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/09/us/ep...nvs/index.html

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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:53 PM
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I believe your fears are spot on! This would be a very good time to let the Governor and Lisa Murkowski know your thoughts. This is scary, and disturbing, but should not come as any surprise. It was only a matter of time with the Trump administration; from the beginning hes been very upfront with his opinions on such matters.
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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:57 PM
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They have to go through EPA permitting process and any permit approved by Trump's cohort at EPA will not happen until an early 2020. Then, there will bye a multiple lawsuits, ( EPA staff was override by political appointee.) Even Pruit after initially removing protection last year put it back. The lawsuits will drag beyond January 2021.

At that point corrupted mafia will most likely be gone from the WH and protection will be back in place. The way Corp of Engineer issued its own permit this year was laughable. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any lawsuit will have to go via 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California, what means any EPA corrupted permit is strike down and they will have to go back to drawing board...........


https://www.adn.com/politics/2019/08...e-restriction/
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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
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I’m not sure the opinions of non-Americans hold much sway, sadly, but I sure hope those of you with the ability to yell and kick and scream do so with wild abandon!

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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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They have to go through EPA permitting process and any permit approved by Trump's cohort at EPA will not happen until an early 2020. Then, there will bye a multiple lawsuits, ( EPA staff was override by political appointee.) Even Pruit after initially removing protection last year put it back. The lawsuits will drag beyond January 2021.

At that point corrupted mafia will most likely be gone from the WH and protection will be back in place. The way Corp of Engineer issued its own permit this year was laughable. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any lawsuit will have to go via 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in California, what means any EPA corrupted permit is strike down and they will have to go back to drawing board...........


https://www.adn.com/politics/2019/08...e-restriction/
Thanks for the clarification! Not being familiar with the American system is a hinderance to fully understanding these things .

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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 02:40 AM
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Im not sure the opinions of non-Americans hold much sway, sadly, but I sure hope those of you with the ability to yell and kick and scream do so with wild abandon!


I believe opinions of nonresident visitors and tourists is very important, more so than residents of places like Bristol Bay. As their numbers could vastly out number the locals. Like said above it will take years for anything to happen and Donny 2 scoops will be gone by then. But when big business is involved anything is possible.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 08:02 AM
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The Trump Administration plans on raping the earth.
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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The Trump Administration plans on raping the earth.
More scary news in that department
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/k...ed-species-act

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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 07:27 PM
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Healey along with California Attorney General Xavier Becerra (D) said they expect several other states to join them in a lawsuit against the federal government. Many environmental groups have likewise said they will sue.

Becerra said the power to change the Endangered Species Act lies squarely with Congress, not the administration, and violates the Administrative Procedure Act by not following the review process for creating new regulations.
“This administration is trying to change the law by breaking the law and that’s not going to stand,” Becerra said
.

It should be no surprise to anyone that FOG crime organization acts illegally.

Only congress can alter the Act.

Once rule is posted to the Federal Register lawsuits by Congress, Sates etc. . will be launched.

Very soon Orange Gangster will announced that he is dissolving congress and will rule USA single-handed, creating Party on One ( Cesar D.J. Trump). He will tweet his cultists that what constitution says and guess what, they will all believe in it.............

He is so envy of Putin and N.orean. dictator, that they are an absolute rulers and he has to deal with a pesky US Congress........
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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 12:29 AM
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Although I subscribe to hearing debate on critical issues, political oppinion and activism should not be a part of this site. I can get this kind of b.s. flipping through the "news"channels. Please remove this thread and others like it. Thank you
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 12:57 AM
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Although I subscribe to hearing debate on critical issues, political oppinion and activism should not be a part of this site. I can get this kind of b.s. flipping through the "news"channels. Please remove this thread and others like it. Thank you
The fact that the current US government is taking actions which will affect much more than just the US (for commercial and political reasons, or just to spite the previous government - and often in violation of due process and the law&constitution) is not a political discussion.. its a problem that should not be ignored, least of all by a site like this with users experiencing the effects first-hand.

Maybe we could do without the name-calling to express political affiliations, but highlighting the issues should be allowed (unless you subscribe to the idea of “alternative facts”...).
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 02:45 AM
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Can someone with a better understanding of the situation than my Canadian self explain the implications/potential outcomes of this apparent intervention by Trump in the Bristol Bay project and the subsequent removal of the EPA protection? Seems extremely scary to me.
It's very complicated.

The reality is nobody knows what is going to happen. There are going to be lawsuits. In the short run, judges tend to be skeptical of what they see as attempts by political appointees to do end-runs around legal code that they don't like. But in the long run, they are also very conscious to avoid being portrayed as stepping on the prerogatives of the other government branches. Very likely early on there will be some wrist-slapping by the judicial branch and the EPA about-face will be halted. The administration will then try to conjure some pretext for action that fits within the letter of the law. It's not clear what happens at that point, but it's very plausible the project is allowed to go ahead. Almost certainly this drags out for long enough to make the determining factor the next presidential election.

The deeper problems are two.

First, what was once a bipartisan consensus in the US around environmental protection has pretty much collapsed, so we see these wild swings in policy depending on which party controls a particular part of government.

Second, the Republican party, at least the most right wing of it, has figured out that both the judicial branch, and, the scientific expertise in government agencies, represent threats to the ability to carry out arbitrary actions favoring certain industries, in particular extraction and manufacturing industries, over environmental protection. The current administration is aggressively and systematically trying to remove those threats, with fair success.


It's not clear how this ends, but it's clear that if people who care about things, like, say, salmon or steelhead habitat, don't speak up, it won't end well. It probably won't end well anyway, sadly.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 07:16 AM
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Although I subscribe to hearing debate on critical issues, political oppinion and activism should not be a part of this site. I can get this kind of b.s. flipping through the "news"channels. Please remove this thread and others like it. Thank you
I would prefer not to address a political entity, however, in this case, the evidence is abundantly clear and present. I happen to think this is not BS.
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 09:39 AM
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The list is endless. The Ohio River Valley is completely screwed.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 10:50 AM
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Although I subscribe to hearing debate on critical issues, political oppinion and activism should not be a part of this site. I can get this kind of b.s. flipping through the "news"channels. Please remove this thread and others like it. Thank you
If we allow for the development of projects like the Pebble Mine and others, and take no notice or actions to protect and defend the habitat of our fish we may not have anything to chat about on sites like this at some point down the road. I do agree with you that a bunch of name calling and political mudslinging is not what we come here for; but this particular issue is of enormous consequence, and our actions (discussions, phone calls, letters, contributions, votes, etc) are urgently needed. The health and preservation of the Bristol Bay region ought to be a high priority for every angler in the world imo. The threat level is way too high to ignore
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