Department of unnecessary complications, Rio edition - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-12-2018, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Department of unnecessary complications, Rio edition

I was reading an article in Fly Fusion that metioned that Rio offers something like 120 fy lines. That reminded me that I need a new line for my trout rod. Already confused by their ads, I decided Iíd go to the Rio website to see if I could devine the differences between, say, a Rio InTouch, a Rio Gold, and a Rio Whosomewhatever and the always popular Rio Superwhosomewhatever.

My first problem was that when I got to the Rio website it briefly displayed the home page, then changed to a blue screen with the Rio yellow R logo in the center and below that, the admonition: Rotate Your Device. I was laying on the couch with my late model IPad on my ample tummy so it was no problem to turn the thing this way and that, then all around, hokey pokey style. Still, I only got that Rotate Your Device notice. I tried again. And then again. And again. Finally, frustrated and not a little enraged, I tried stuffing the IPad up my you-know-what and rotating (as many a childhood friend had suggested regarding other objects at other times) but that didnít work either. What a mess.

Youíd think Ďd give up, but no. I had my IPhone handy and gave it try on that. No Rotate Your Device notice this time. So far so good.

Rio offerís a Line Selector application on their site, so I gave that a try. One of the early options is to select the rod I was selecing for. They had my manufaturer but not the particular model, which is understandable because itís an older rod manufatured sometime in the late Jurrasic, 2015. Never mind. I pressed on.

Next option, Saltwater, Freshwater, Brackish? An easy one.

Warm water, coldwater, tepid, or bong? Agan, easy. Same with river, lake, casting pond or hot tub? I also got the one listing many species, incuding one I never herd of, ďotherĒ. Probably one of those Amazon creatures discovered after my Fly Fishing Magazine subscription lapsed

But now it got tricky: general purpose, presentation, or ultimate performance?. I confess Iím one of those guys who came to the sport late in life with a little money in my pocket for gear. If I can spend some dough to short cut the learning curve, Iím gonna do it. It hasnít really helped muh as far as I can tell and I think the guides Iíve injured woud agree, but still. Ultimate performance for sure.

Finally the app presents some lines for my consideration. As Iíve mentioned, however, Iím viewing this on my handheld device and Iím a little older so itís tough to read the descriptions. What I can make out seems like argle bargle to me. Apparently one line is good for delicate presentations under cloudy skies around sunset, while another shines just after dawn. One works better if youíve had two cups of coffee, another if that coffee has a little dash of whiskey, yet another if youíre wearing all white.

Iím undecided, though I do have a white linen suit that would look smashing at the lodge.

Surfing sucks. Don't try it.
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-12-2018, 10:24 PM
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Try the Rio Single Handed Spey line in the weight for your rod. The line speaks volumes for the designers, much better than any app could convey. It's coin well spent.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-12-2018, 11:00 PM
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This is not on you. It is a sign of the times. Back when I was learning (late 70's) it was the weight of the line. Double taper. Period. Now Rio, Orvis, SA and other line companies have concluded that customers who are trying to cast better are willing to buy their way out of the problem instead of practicing. So now you have far too many choices that don't really matter. One companies 5wt is really a 6wt, anothers is simply a repackaging of a line in one product segment with an new name in another. The lines we have access today are amazing compared to what we had 20 years ago but the quality and durability has lead the manufactures to create crazy prices and false choices.
Don't get me wrong, in the two hand game the current line choices have helped make the two handed rod market possible but every year the manufactures create new lines that for the most part are not better then those before them.

Quinn
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 12:26 AM
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Surf,

That was F'ing funny... Hats off to you!
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 12:48 AM
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True and Ditto!

And funny entertaining starter surfdog !

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuinnCanfield View Post
This is not on you. It is a sign of the times. Back when I was learning (late 70's) it was the weight of the line. Double taper. Period. Now Rio, Orvis, SA and other line companies have concluded that customers who are trying to cast better are willing to buy their way out of the problem instead of practicing. So now you have far too many choices that don't really matter. One companies 5wt is really a 6wt, anothers is simply a repackaging of a line in one product segment with an new name in another. The lines we have access today are amazing compared to what we had 20 years ago but the quality and durability has lead the manufactures to create crazy prices and false choices.
Don't get me wrong, in the two hand game the current line choices have helped make the two handed rod market possible but every year the manufactures create new lines that for the most part are not better then those before them.

Quinn
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 01:42 AM
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While I completely agree, that there are way too many line choices with little differences, I have to say, that I enjoy speciality-lines for certain applications. Since I have to travel to fish (living in Singapore), it helps a lot being able to adjust the setup to meet the requirements..

E.g.:
- Wulff Ambush for throwing big flies to non-spooky fish such as taimen, pike or bass
- Wulff triangle taper for normal application dries
- Monic clear floating or Sunray microthin for spooky trout in New Zealand
- Arctic Silver lines for long-distance coastal applications.

Are they necessary? - Probably not - a standard line can deal with all of the above, but they may give you an advantage. (On the other hand, using an Ambush line in New Zealand, or a dry fly line for bass poppers is a lost battle...)
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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 06:34 AM
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I'm with you SurfDog. That line selector is all but useless if you're not fishing for North American species or in shallow tropical water.

I just wish they had an alternative web site that showed their line taper designs, actual line weights and temperature ratings in a simple, easy-to-compare format.

Cheers,
Graeme
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 06:56 AM
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Nailed it Surfdog. Totally nailed it.
The site is even more annoying if you try to change your mind about what rod you are using for what. The bastard thing remembers what you said ten minutes ago. Hirdy is on to it. Just give us a bloody printout with profiles and weights FFS. Hint...sneak a peak in the images files on some other sites. The web is truly huge. Cheers...Jimmy
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 07:57 AM
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This post got my serious attention!!

There is something like 3000+ different fly line "models" on the market from all the manufacturers...yes 3000!!!! Trying to negotiate your way through this to find...you hope...the right line for you and your rod can be a nightmare. If you could bring home several different manufacturer's lines of several different weights and types to try so you can get what works best on any given rod would be great. But since we don't live in that ideal world we must rely on the word and recommendations of others who may not cast the same as you do, may not fish the places you do, may not fish for the same species as you do...and this all makes a difference.

But...like lots of folks I also have a recommendation. I have been friends with Ed Jaworoski for over 40 years and the technical aspects of casting have been a passion of his as long as I've known him. His piece in the latest issue of Fly Fisherman Magazine will open a lot eyes on the subject of fly lines. Do yourself a favor...buy, borrow or somehow get a copy and read what he has learned about lines. I promise it will change your view of this dramatically.

Cheers,
George

Petri Heil,
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 11:41 AM
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KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Owning a few older ipads and having experienced the "rotate your device" message, I no longer visit the Rio website. Seems that some of these companies and their web designers keep missing the point on the purpose of having a web presence ....
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 05-13-2018, 11:52 AM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustybee View Post
KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. Owning a few older ipads and having experienced the "rotate your device" message, I no longer visit the Rio website. Seems that some of these companies and their web designers keep missing the point on the purpose of having a web presence ....
I agree with you Rustybee...this is what is known as marketing and yours truly doesn't fall for that nonsense. After 55 years with a fly rod in hand I think I've pretty much figured that out.
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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-12-2019, 10:42 PM
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Now THIS is funny! I nearly sprayed coffee all over the screen. Well said-and true!
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-13-2019, 09:18 AM
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hey... can't let this slip by yer dissen my fav line company

Rio was very supportive of spey casting a few decades ago with their Windcutter, GrandSpey and Mid Spey lines when there wasn't all that many spey lines to choose from. Their RIO community (pro staff in other words) includes many women casters; plus their marketing guy Simon G ... can actually properly cast a spey line ... and teach too ... and puts out bloody good videos to prove it. I remember way back one of my buddies had a question on a RIO line so he phoned RIO to get the answer and Simon answered the phone; how cool is that. All this is positive differentiation.

"Unnecessary complicated" ... perhaps . Its very interesting how technical and detailed things can become; even in a leisure sport. I'll take inventiveness over stagnation any day. Does one line make a difference over another even for a subtle change in the environment/conditions? I think so, probably. Is it worth it? ... dunno, value is in the eye of each consumer.

Cool topic.
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-13-2019, 11:18 AM
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Great read!

Now considering that it's common in the TH world for advice on lines to begin with something like "depends on your casting style, rod, and fishing method, etc."... and honestly it's the same with SH rods. If companies only offered 3 lines take it or leave it, there would be just as many complaints. It's no secret that the fly fishing world is quite small, so creating 'new' products and more and more niche products (Eg. species specific rods?!?) it's all a marketing machine, but that being said, there are material differences to many of these different lines, and throw in the combos of casters and fly rods. Also, don't forget that companies like Rio has a few different quality levels, the cheapest ones having cheaper materials.

Honestly, I've had much better luck speaking to the rod manufacturers on line recommendations (They have to use something to fine tune their rods...) than line makers.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-13-2019, 08:00 PM
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That was fun! Nice job!

-Sean
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