Political threads - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Political threads

I've been thinking a bit about the political threads and posts that show up here from time to time... and almost inevitably end up ruffling some feathers and eventually need to be closed down. First off, I think that overall this forum has stayed fairly civil and respectful and there have been some reasonable exchanges on some sensitive issues. Kudos to both the posters who have likely edited their posts carefully, and to our super moderators!

There does seem to be a bit of a conundrum here (personally speaking). I do value many of the comments that some have made in the more politically tinged threads; but I too usually come here to immerse myself in all things fishing. On the one hand, I don't think that these threads should infringe on anyone who has come here for a little "virtual river time"; on the other hand there are some real issues that can have real ramifications on the very things we all love.

I'm of the opinion that there is some potential benefit to be able to reach out and raise awareness for specific threats to watersheds, or to gather support for legislation that could have positive impacts on a particular fishery, etc. Perhaps these threads could be moved from the "general" forum to a better location so that people could come and go to that forum if/when the so choose? I know that no one needs to click on any thread title, but I think that certain thread titles tend be like the proverbial car crash that you just can't look away from. Just to be clear, in no way am I suggesting a free for all political bash forum; but one with more or less the same basic rules in it's own dedicated space.

Curious if others would support or prefer moving these threads to a dedicated forum? Would our esteemed moderators be in favor of such a move? Just a thought.
JB
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 03:49 PM
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My opinion only is he combatants will forget there are borders and many threads will turn into a pissing match.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Back Eddy View Post
My opinion only is he combatants will forget there are borders and many threads will turn into a pissing match.

When the cats away the mice will play
That does happen to some degree indeed. I certainly wasn't in any way suggesting lack of moderation!!! Sorry if that wasn't clear, I was more just suggesting that perhaps these same threads with essentially the same basic rules be moved to a different forum.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 04:44 PM
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Kind of like a PG 18 rated thread or a different site all together???

I think I fish, in part, because it’s an anti-social, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. –John Gierach

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:15 PM
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I'm of the opinion that politics has no niche on a spey fishing forum.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:19 PM
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Not in the definition you are thinking

Pretty sure the reference is to topics that are bound to become heated not Donald and Hillary

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I'm of the opinion that politics has no niche on a spey fishing forum.

I think I fish, in part, because it’s an anti-social, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. –John Gierach

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:34 PM
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Jason et all, may I direct you to the "Speypages Code of Conduct" that is at the top of every sub-Forum, including this General sub-forum :

http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/5...e-conduct.html


Please take note to rule #6 :

6. This is a Forum dedicated to "All things Spey". Discussions based on political or cultural views, or related to faith or religious beliefs have no place here on the Speypages. Discussions based on environmental topics are welcomed provided they are fact based and discussed within the guidelines mentioned above. These discussions can be started in the General Forum only.


None of the "political" threads here have been deleted, they remain for reference for those members who are interested. Some good discussions and facts are raised, however it seems these threads cross the rules several times, which the moderators try to bring back on topic and remind about the guidelines here. However they seem to consistently cross back over the line.

I will re-iterate again, politics and spey make for strange bedfellows. Much like discussions based on faith or religion, political views and/or propaganda have no place here. There are other forums that will welcome those discussions and some thrive on that style of controversy and bantering between the members. This causes separations and divisions that will only hinder this community.


Mike
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:36 PM
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I think there's a lot to be said for allowing a place on the forum to discuss the environmental issues that I'm sure we all care about. Taking the last couple environmental/political threads as examples (the first regarding public lands and the second regarding the endangered species act) I found the majority of the posts to be well thought out, and personally very informative. There are a bunch of well informed people on this site, regardless of political leanings, and it would be a shame to have all opportunities for civil dialogue shut down preemptively.

I understand the argument that politics have no place on this (or other fishing) sites, and that we're all here to escape a bit from our daily lives with a little virtual water time, but I'm personally of the opinion that if we want to keep us and our children fishing we no longer have the luxury of burying our (collective and individual) heads in the fly fishing sand about environmental issues. And the solutions to these issues, whether we like it or not, are political. And we need to be able to talk about them, differing opinions or no.

All this to say that I would be very in favour of a forum dedicated to discussion about these topics. That way an individual can choose to read or not, to join in or not. Yes, it would need heavy moderation and would probably mean a lot of work for those in that role, but I think it's important enough to very seriously consider.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david.schotzko View Post
I think there's a lot to be said for allowing a place on the forum to discuss the environmental issues that I'm sure we all care about. Taking the last couple environmental/political threads as examples (the first regarding public lands and the second regarding the endangered species act) I found the majority of the posts to be well thought out, and personally very informative. There are a bunch of well informed people on this site, regardless of political leanings, and it would be a shame to have all opportunities for civil dialogue shut down preemptively.

I understand the argument that politics have no place on this (or other fishing) sites, and that we're all here to escape a bit from our daily lives with a little virtual water time, but I'm personally of the opinion that if we want to keep us and our children fishing we no longer have the luxury of burying our (collective and individual) heads in the fly fishing sand about environmental issues. And the solutions to these issues, whether we like it or not, are political. And we need to be able to talk about them, differing opinions or no.

All this to say that I would be very in favour of a forum dedicated to discussion about these topics. That way an individual can choose to read or not, to join in or not. Yes, it would need heavy moderation and would probably mean a lot of work for those in that role, but I think it's important enough to very seriously consider.
Just for the record, I was writing all that while mike was posting the above - I stand my my feelings on the matter, but it isn't a response to Mike's post.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GR8LAKES FLYER View Post
Jason et all, may I direct you to the "Speypages Code of Conduct" that is at the top of every sub-Forum, including this General sub-forum :

http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/5...e-conduct.html


Please take note to rule #6 :

6. This is a Forum dedicated to "All things Spey". Discussions based on political or cultural views, or related to faith or religious beliefs have no place here on the Speypages. Discussions based on environmental topics are welcomed provided they are fact based and discussed within the guidelines mentioned above. These discussions can be started in the General Forum only.


None of the "political" threads here have been deleted, they remain for reference for those members who are interested. Some good discussions and facts are raised, however it seems these threads cross the rules several times, which the moderators try to bring back on topic and remind about the guidelines here. However they seem to consistently cross back over the line.

I will re-iterate again, politics and spey make for strange bedfellows. Much like discussions based on faith or religion, political views and/or propaganda have no place here. There are other forums that will welcome those discussions and some thrive on that style of controversy and bantering between the members. This causes separations and divisions that will only hinder this community.


Mike
The code of conduct is very clear to me. This forum is a lot better than my local state forum where it is pretty much anything goes and several post just to troll the crowd. I like the approach of another forum I am on (not fishing) where they have a "lounge area" and when you use the show new posts menu all of the posts there show up as "Off topic content. Click to see posts."
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 06:12 PM
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We could do this by not doing what I did

Just sticking to facts not any mention of political party.

Should go hand in hand with conservation

I didn't think it through and my apologies to all for not being more thoughtful to how I articulated the threads and posts.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 06:23 PM
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I don't think "Spey pages" has or should have any room for political or religion post's, If I wanted to see/read that crap I would watch TV....My 2 cents

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 06:31 PM
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I am of two minds about discussions of politics. on one hand i think there are some very prevalent views that are based on falsehoods that need to be combated and my preferred people to talk about them with are other fishermen. On the other hand we don't need to be dividing ourselves more over partisan politics that have nothing to do with fishing but come out in political discussions about issues that affect fishing.

I guess the answer for me would be i'd love to be able to speak my mind on a variety of issues with other fishermen but this certainly is not the place.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Back Eddy View Post
Pretty sure the reference is to topics that are bound to become heated not Donald and Hillary
Maybe, but the thread title is "Political threads".
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 06:32 PM
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I vote no politics.
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