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Political threads

3K views 31 replies 18 participants last post by  GR8LAKES FLYER 
#1 ·
I've been thinking a bit about the political threads and posts that show up here from time to time... and almost inevitably end up ruffling some feathers and eventually need to be closed down. First off, I think that overall this forum has stayed fairly civil and respectful and there have been some reasonable exchanges on some sensitive issues. Kudos to both the posters who have likely edited their posts carefully, and to our super moderators!

There does seem to be a bit of a conundrum here (personally speaking). I do value many of the comments that some have made in the more politically tinged threads; but I too usually come here to immerse myself in all things fishing. On the one hand, I don't think that these threads should infringe on anyone who has come here for a little "virtual river time"; on the other hand there are some real issues that can have real ramifications on the very things we all love.

I'm of the opinion that there is some potential benefit to be able to reach out and raise awareness for specific threats to watersheds, or to gather support for legislation that could have positive impacts on a particular fishery, etc. Perhaps these threads could be moved from the "general" forum to a better location so that people could come and go to that forum if/when the so choose? I know that no one needs to click on any thread title, but I think that certain thread titles tend be like the proverbial car crash that you just can't look away from. Just to be clear, in no way am I suggesting a free for all political bash forum; but one with more or less the same basic rules in it's own dedicated space.

Curious if others would support or prefer moving these threads to a dedicated forum? Would our esteemed moderators be in favor of such a move? Just a thought.
JB
 
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#3 ·
That does happen to some degree indeed. I certainly wasn't in any way suggesting lack of moderation!!! Sorry if that wasn't clear, I was more just suggesting that perhaps these same threads with essentially the same basic rules be moved to a different forum.
JB
 
#7 ·
Jason et all, may I direct you to the "Speypages Code of Conduct" that is at the top of every sub-Forum, including this General sub-forum :

http://www.speypages.com/speyclave/53-general/270337-must-read-speypages-community-code-conduct.html


Please take note to rule #6 :

6. This is a Forum dedicated to "All things Spey". Discussions based on political or cultural views, or related to faith or religious beliefs have no place here on the Speypages. Discussions based on environmental topics are welcomed provided they are fact based and discussed within the guidelines mentioned above. These discussions can be started in the General Forum only.


None of the "political" threads here have been deleted, they remain for reference for those members who are interested. Some good discussions and facts are raised, however it seems these threads cross the rules several times, which the moderators try to bring back on topic and remind about the guidelines here. However they seem to consistently cross back over the line.

I will re-iterate again, politics and spey make for strange bedfellows. Much like discussions based on faith or religion, political views and/or propaganda have no place here. There are other forums that will welcome those discussions and some thrive on that style of controversy and bantering between the members. This causes separations and divisions that will only hinder this community.


Mike
 
#10 ·
The code of conduct is very clear to me. This forum is a lot better than my local state forum where it is pretty much anything goes and several post just to troll the crowd. I like the approach of another forum I am on (not fishing) where they have a "lounge area" and when you use the show new posts menu all of the posts there show up as "Off topic content. Click to see posts."
 
#8 ·
I think there's a lot to be said for allowing a place on the forum to discuss the environmental issues that I'm sure we all care about. Taking the last couple environmental/political threads as examples (the first regarding public lands and the second regarding the endangered species act) I found the majority of the posts to be well thought out, and personally very informative. There are a bunch of well informed people on this site, regardless of political leanings, and it would be a shame to have all opportunities for civil dialogue shut down preemptively.

I understand the argument that politics have no place on this (or other fishing) sites, and that we're all here to escape a bit from our daily lives with a little virtual water time, but I'm personally of the opinion that if we want to keep us and our children fishing we no longer have the luxury of burying our (collective and individual) heads in the fly fishing sand about environmental issues. And the solutions to these issues, whether we like it or not, are political. And we need to be able to talk about them, differing opinions or no.

All this to say that I would be very in favour of a forum dedicated to discussion about these topics. That way an individual can choose to read or not, to join in or not. Yes, it would need heavy moderation and would probably mean a lot of work for those in that role, but I think it's important enough to very seriously consider.
 
#11 ·
We could do this by not doing what I did

Just sticking to facts not any mention of political party.

Should go hand in hand with conservation

I didn't think it through and my apologies to all for not being more thoughtful to how I articulated the threads and posts.
 
#13 ·
I am of two minds about discussions of politics. on one hand i think there are some very prevalent views that are based on falsehoods that need to be combated and my preferred people to talk about them with are other fishermen. On the other hand we don't need to be dividing ourselves more over partisan politics that have nothing to do with fishing but come out in political discussions about issues that affect fishing.

I guess the answer for me would be i'd love to be able to speak my mind on a variety of issues with other fishermen but this certainly is not the place.
 
#19 ·
Yes, agree 100%. It's not even that we need to all agree and act as a single body (though that would be amazing), but maybe a conversation had or an opinion piece read on this forum might galvanize some individual of us to stand up and take action on something they personally believe in, in a way they haven't done before.

I'd also argue that there's a distinction between political and partisan. We're not going to be able to have substantial discussions about environmental concerns without being political - they're inherently political topics. But I do think we can have those conversations without being partisan.

And, yes, it's true that we do just fine arguing about things without politics involved. For me, I find the arguments relating to environmental policy more worthwhile than those relating to flossing, or (even worse!) the inferiority of skagit heads to long bellys... :saeek:
 
#20 ·
I don't think that topics which might introduce CONTROVERSY and DISCUSSION, sometimes heated, and possible ARGUMENTS should be censored or removed. Environmental topics, ethics topics, opinions - those are all fair game in my opinion, but those topics do not fall under POLITICS. Maybe my definition of 'politics' is entirely different than yours, but the subject just seems like an easy opportunity to troll people. And political 'discussions' never end pretty.
 
#21 ·
There are rules cleary posted that govern these pages. Its easy to have a heated argument among passionate people, but the rules are there to avoid it getting out of hand. We have a choice to engage or not, but we should be aware of the consequences.

I feel there is room for debate, but I'll leave it at and respect the moderators choices when it's time to shut it down.
We're lucky enough to have this great place and the people who take the time to keep it great.
 
#22 ·
If I was to say, nymphing with a two handed rod is not fly fishing, would that be too political. I am just kidding of course. I have visited Speypages almost everyday dating back to when I joined. I can't recall every turning off my computer in anger after a visit. Not even when Dana sold out. I have watched a few people leave in anger, but for the most part it has always been a positive experience for me. I have a strong dislike for talking politics with any of my friends that may not share my same views. A non combative debate about what tippet is the best or what material is best, is OK, but when it become personal it not all the good. Posting information, such as the the vote on Gil netting the Columbia, though it might be political can be done right and in a positive way. But there is always two sides to an issue and care must be taken when posting a response. I feel the moderators do one heck of a job keeping us in line. Hat off to them and to this community for making this place a joy to be a part of.
 
#24 ·
Did everyone miss that the Clean Water Act is now going to be repealed - that affects every river, stream, and coastline in the States

If that doesn't put things in perspective

You can read about on the White House website . . . or maybe you feel like dancing :Eyecrazy:

I'm not sure but I think that is fishing related. You all decide
 
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#26 ·
Did everyone miss that the Clean Water Act is now going to be repealed - that affects every river, stream, and coastline in the States

If that doesn't put things in perspective

You can read about on the White House website . . . or maybe you feel like dancing :Eyecrazy:
NOT TRUE, please do better research!!

This pertains to the Clean Water Ruling (WOTUS) not the Clean Water Act.
 
#25 ·
My 2 Cents if I may!

Politics !!! this is where we as a country FAIL!! it is there side or are side!! face it that is what? 70% of this country's attitude towards politics! I think !
From all the post I have read here looking for '" All Things Spey " I thing everyone here would be cool about a political discussion! but it would only take
1 I say one post to start a chain reaction I have seen this on other forums in the car department forum
so I vote for ALL THINGS SPEY!!!
But yup here it comes, I do think since we do fish and we do impact are environment even in small ways just driving to where we wish to fish
has it's consequences car exhaust and so on. Then how many have you gone down to a fishing spot and see were someone dumped a bunch of fishing line or empty lure packages or empty bait containers??

I think this forum needs a forum for the environment WE USE! as in maybe cleaning a fishing hole up or helping in some other way???
being able to post rule changes and monitor laws that will affect are fishing and what we can do to stop it or help a good law
I said it before we are on the bottom of the food chain as in fishing!! you do not see that commercial fisherman standing up for your right to fish on the bank and then we can ONLY TAKE HATCHERY STEELHEAD AND SALMON!! the gill nets????
if we do not stand together in are little band of brothers and sisters, Where do we go to a forum like this if not here where??

BUT NO DARN POLITICS HERE PLEASE???
I wish to see no hate here!!!!! and that is what politics here will do!!!!

Bill
 
#27 ·
I always find that political discussions are either nonexistent or very civil when live.
this never happens on an open forum so I reckon if you want to talk pollies join a pollie forum. simples.
and it'll be an awesome and sharing environment... everything there is split 50/50.

cheers,
shawn
 
#30 ·
I take back what I said. Politics of any kind should be off limits. This forum should not be used to push someone's personal agenda. I have had to on-follow and on-friend a hundred plus on face book, just to get my news feed back to fly fishing and fun positive posts. My vote is everything Two Handed (spey).
 
#32 ·
We want to thank the members for their views and PM's on the subject, Brian and I have discussed this back and forth and tried to be lenient, but now the Forum rules will stand ... no political debates, agendas, finger pointing, etc....

Now as for the future postings, threads, etc., any post, thread or statement that can be seen as controversial towards Rule #6 in the Code of Conduct will be removed, up to and including the thread. As with all Forum violations, a member or members will be given a warning and asked to refrain from such topics. If political agendas want to be posted, then do so on a different site, not the Speypages. This community environment will be upheld and remain for all to enjoy and participate. For this reason, the Speypages Code of Conduct was made, posted and expected to be followed so all may enjoy.

What can you do for the environment, or influence politicians and change legislation ?? Join your local TU chapters, the Wild Steelhead Coalition, SSBC, ASCF, NASCO, ASF, etc.... These organizations have many members that stand strong and lobby local, provincial/state and federal governments to change legislation and influence politicians with voter numbers. These are the best options for your efforts. Political and cultural banter back and forth on this forum will not solve anything, it will create nothing more a negative environment and divide this community. Past threads have already shown the debate becomes heated, topic is lost and only voicing political agendas is leftover.

Lets ask ourselves this question: Why did I join the Speypages in the first place ??


Mike
 
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