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Casting effort

7K views 31 replies 20 participants last post by  fish0n4evr 
#1 ·
Food for thought. I have gotten to the point that I can throw these lines as far as most people. However, I have also noted that really good casters can throw them with about 1/4 of the effort. It is hard to resist the temptation to muscle these casts. I know, because I am guilty! However, if you are planning on doing a lot of this for a lot of years, the power approach is going to take its toll on your joints. It is worth contemplating. The lift, the anchor placement, the sweep, and the timing of the forward cast all work together, and when they do it is not hard to get the distance you need. Thought for the day after watching some very good casters for a week in Tierra del Fuego.
 
#4 ·
I consider myself a reasonable caster but nowhere as good as Bruce just based on his past videos. However, I find, as mentioned, if you try and muscle it you will fail, eventually. When this happening to me I usually do a couple of things. First I will shorten up a bit and try and relax. If I still can't seem to put it together I just stop. Reel up. Smoke a cigar, eat a sandwich. Whatever it takes to reset. Just walk away for 15 minutes. When you come back start short and work your way out and get back in the game. I have had a couple times, late in a long day, where it was all going wrong. I packed up, went home and hit it again the next time. It only gets better with time.

Dan
 
#6 ·
Food for thought. I have gotten to the point that I can throw these lines as far as most people. However, I have also noted that really good casters can throw them with about 1/4 of the effort. It is hard to resist the temptation to muscle these casts. I know, because I am guilty! However, if you are planning on doing a lot of this for a lot of years, the power approach is going to take its toll on your joints. It is worth contemplating. The lift, the anchor placement, the sweep, and the timing of the forward cast all work together, and when they do it is not hard to get the distance you need. Thought for the day after watching some very good casters for a week in Tierra del Fuego.
No, forming a climbing loop doesn't take much effort, but... effort is proportional. Im convinced it take less "umph" than forming tight, narrow loops and generally speaking - heavier outfits (weight-class) require more effort than lighter outfits.

I have not been to Argentina. What is it like there? Maybe you can give some detail on weather conditions and of the riggings used there. 8/9/10 weight? I can say - surface presentations amidst white-caps don't make much sense and it is just not worth the effort when the wind threatens to blow you off your feet!

Heavier, more powerful tapers do help. For example: A Delta Long 7/8 ( 60 feet 570 grain) versus a WA 55 (600 grain and only 55 feet to the back taper.) I've gotten used to the Airflo in winds to ~15knots. Ive been out in winds 15 knots +; however, I switch to Nextcast Winter Authority when the winds kick-up that way.

Vic.
 
#7 ·
No, forming a climbing loop doesn't take much effort, but... effort is proportional. Im convinced it take less "umph" than forming tight, narrow loops and generally speaking -
Vic.
line goes where rod tip goes. more overhang will really tighten up a loop. and tests your ability to keep tension in cast.
guess what loop had more overhang?
 

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#10 ·
Hi Everypne,

Something critical that has not been mentioned yet - rotation. I would say body rotation (torque) helps to generate speed thus increasing efficiency of the cast. Casting is about line speed and not power used. Proper use of levers (bottom hand, upper hand) combined with body rotation coupled with body weight shifting works wonders.
 
#11 ·
When using too much power what usually happens is that it's not how much power is applied it is when it is applied. As noted above body rotation helps to begin the loading/bending of the rod at the stronger butt sections so that as momentum is developed in the line for the arc of rod rotation for line speed, the power of the stronger section of the rod is utilized.

When one tries to "hit it hard" the rod rotation usually begins immediately for the forward cast and the weaker tip sections of the rod are utilized defeating the use of power application. Start bending the rod first to begin moving the line before rotating the rod for line speed.

Just a suggestion......
 
#12 ·
Go get yourself a old slower action heavy rod and start casting with that. A rod like this will force you to slow down and cast more effectively. The harder you push it the less it works and the more tired you will become.After beating yourself up a few times casting a rod like this you will learn to cast more efficiently.
 
#23 ·
On a two handed rod - both hands generating power simultaneously rather than one, top or bottom, doing a majority of the work. Its been described in several different ways. The "shot-gun lift" is one - although not the most accurate or most fitting. When one hand pulls the other pushes. In his book Dec Hogan wrote and Im paraphrasing that we are always pulling fly line, always pulling, with both top and bottom hand. I know it has been described using different words in at least one other way, essentially saying the same thing...
I "love" when captain regurgitate calls someone else out for saying something basic.

Also, what does a shotgun lift have to do with generating power with a top hand, bottom hand, or both?
 
#17 ·
Casting in extreme weather conditions requires considerable effort. Distance is always reduced. Rough water/pitching waves can impede the fly from lifting off the water or cause the anchor to crash in mid-sweep/relocation. When a strong wind wants to blow the line away and is actually impeding an anchor set it is almost a natural reaction to drive the anchor downward by dipping the rod with force. It does "help" in extreme winds and requires extra effort.
 
#22 ·
On a two handed rod - both hands generating power simultaneously rather than one, top or bottom, doing a majority of the work. Its been described in several different ways. The "shot-gun lift" is one - although not the most accurate or most fitting. When one hand pulls the other pushes. In his book Dec Hogan wrote and Im paraphrasing that we are always pulling fly line, always pulling, with both top and bottom hand. I know it has been described using different words in at least one other way, essentially saying the same thing...
 
#24 ·
What I think is more important here, is how does one translate all this enlightenment of the mind past old stubborn instincts and habits. I do occasionally get in a streak of some really smooth efficient casts, enough to know that it IS POSSIBLE, and even I can do it... but... out of nowhere, I’ll end up gripping the rod tighter and hitting the casts harder, start blowing anchors, tailing loops, open loops, you name it. I’ve even had times where I’m chanting in my head as I start the lift, “slllloooooooowwww”, through the sweep, “nice and easy, gentle”... only to slam it hard on the forward cast and blowing the cast. Again! 😡

When I do manage to relax, and NOT force the cast, they fly a mile. Easy peasy. So why I am still so hell bent on trying to beat the tar out of those tailing loops? So much to learn, so little time.
JB
 
#25 ·
What about DT's? DTs suck for spey casting according to some. Yet, when talking about testing your casting skill/abilities DT are often considered the ultimate challenge. Once you become used to forming a loop in a level-section of flyline (without the benefit of back taper or overhang) it is a skill that can be applied to any style of line. There's no overhang with a DT - not until the entire taper beyond tiptop with the front acting as a back taper.

The intent of a WF desighn is to make shooting easier. Loop connections are not the smoothest through the guides so when casting heads with blunt rear tapers or chopped lines are involved - one is almost forced to leave some length of running line just buying the tiptop: "Overhang". But what does overhang do for you WRT forming a loop that can't be done without it? Doesn't a longer length of overhang require more effort the same way that carrying a longer length (of running section) when casting overhead?

Oh- and the "shotgun lift" is merely another teaching tool or learning aid. Just to be perfectly clear there. The breaking action is similar to the lower hand /arm motions when casting a two-handed fly rod.

Vic.
 
#26 ·
Slowly transitioning from 40 years of a single handed rod (muscle memory) into the double handed rod. Sucked huge last year and struggled but couldn’t put it down. Lawn Grass casting as much as I can and I can get not bad tension on longer grass. Interesting reading on some post regarding overpowering and trying to pound as much line as I can with brute strength! It seems my first few casts are my best and then the juice takes over and I’m rushing the cast, dropping the rod to soon etc etc. It’s complicated but when one connects ZING! What a feeling.
 
#28 ·
I got a spectacular new Meiser 8140 MKX last winter. I LOVE that rod, and it's one of only a couple rods that I didn't feel like I had to learn, find the feel of, rather like I knew it when I got it.

While being guided by Mark Shamburg this past winter (the week before we all dropped into quarantine), I encouraged him to take a turn. He really seemed to like it and, as Mark always does, launched beautiful, slow laser beams out over the water. I love fishing with Mark, as I never spend time with him that I don't learn. This time I said, So, I love that rod, and I feel like I cast it pretty well. And you cast it way better. Tips?

He said, Slower. Slower on the sweep, slower on the casting stroke. I like to cast lazy.

I already felt like I was going about as slow as I could, but it turned out I wasn't. And it is better, slower. My power stroke with this rod has about all the effort of exhaling.
 
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