Click and pawl for Loomis IMX Pro 3wt - Page 2 - Spey Pages
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Stravic View Post
Does the hardy princess come in more than one size?
No and yes. There is only one Hardy Princess with one size. However the Princess is just one reel from the old Hardy lightweight series that includes smaller reels (LRH and Featherweight) and larger reels (Zenith, St. Aidan, St. Andrew). All of these are built on essentially the same plan but different geometry going from matching up with fishing for the smallest trout up to salmon - so “a different size princess” would be one of those.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 05:01 PM
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Some of the most visceral sensations of my 'big fish' memories, be it steelhead or trout, was the sound of my pawl reel screaming... and the line burn, but mostly the screaming.

"Take care of the fish, and the fishing will take care of itself." ó Art Neumann
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 08:14 AM
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Like always. It depends...
It seems to be, it also depends on the personal development one was going through. If one was beginning his own fishing career with Far East mass produced drag system reels, it may be a nice step back to do something different, knowing whatís really important in a reel for a lighter approach maybe, and bring some classic look or old day feelings into his fishing.

I have my complete arrangement of Marquis and other Hardy reels in the Vitrine. Not as a collector. They have been bought over the years in the late 70Ďs and 80Ďs for my fishing. They all got their good load of use.
I liked the beauty, the craftsmanship and simplicity over all modern drag system reels of those days. But after some years I started to tune them to more silence. Not that easy. It was still too much noise for me.
If one likes the sound for more action and Adrenalin, like I did in the beginnings, itís okay of course. Have fun with them!
When I go fishing, I want to have no unnessary artificial noise, only water, wind, splashing fishes... Concentration to the main actors. Itís Adrenalin enough for me meanwhile. No need for hysterical screaming reels.
Sometimes over the fishing year some of my old reels get their outing in reminiscence of old days.

For the ones who have started with modern drag reels and step back now to those reels, the motivation is mostly:
Direct contact to the fish without a high tech drag system, simplicity, Beauty, craftsmanship of build, classic look and some more.

But the downsides have to be seen.
For the toughest of fishing and big species the average fishermen will cause higher mortality rates in case of c&r for own pleasure, highest available Adrenalin level because of additional noise from a hysterically screaming and beautiful old reel. The longer the better...
This is said, knowing there are of course people who donít need more time by palming a reel without a drag system, my friends and myself included. But itís that much easier with a reasonable large arbor reel and a reliable drag system, especially for the average angler, encouraged to do so because of something like a hype, back to old reels.
Times have changed and there are different approaches and needs.
The serious and responsible fishermen, fishing for the big ones with c&r as an option or even as a rule, use heavy gear and high quality reels with large arbor construction, drag system and a strong tendency to antireverse reels. Thatís for the heavy gear.
And this happens in Europe with the salmon fishing, where the obviously š hyped so called classic reels were coming from in old days, when c&r was not known. All for itís time and itís purpose.
Thatís for the heavy gear and heavy fishing. Please excuse this excursion. Maybe itís inconvenient, but it has to be said.

For the lighter and smaller species thatís not the problem. I myself donít use any drag system here. But the disadvantage here is the weight of the classic reels and their limited capacity for the modern lines.
For balancing my smallest trout Spey, the 8/9 Marquis is too heavy to have the right balance, the 7 is too small for the lines needed. And I for myself do not like to be forced to screw my careful treated lines down to an unhealthy diameter.
The weight-balance and line-capacity problem increases with the unluckily downlocking reelseats on many of the Troutspey/Minispey rods as it is with the asked Loomis rod here.
I am in doubt, one of the mentioned classic reels will carry all lines needed or balance the rod in a proper way without changing grip from casting to fishing position. I tried every combination for my troutspey fishing, but it was not satisfying.
It will be a big compromise only for a classic look and a screaming reel. Again, it depends.... Where one may see the main reasons to like or not to like.

Just as an option to think over:
Form follows function.
I found acceptable balance and good line capacity for most of my switch rod approaches (down- and uplocking reel seats) with the Danielsson Original 2W.
In a different way those reels are already classic, without the same disadvantages. Itís a large arbour reel. The Original fulfills the wanted direct contact without drag system. Only resistance against overrun, same resistance forward and backwards.
But maybe itís far too silent in comparison, only the sound of six ballbearings, like a water turbine on a fast running fish...
Only the streaming water, wind, the fish and you.

But as I finish to write this down, I realized, I really didnít consider at all, some of you are living in bear country...
So donít take my words all too serious and feel free of course to use the loudest reels you can get😁 Or do they get trained to it, get alarmed and feel encouraged to come and steal the fish? I donít have any idea about this problem. Anyway, I donít want to feel guilty😇

All the best for you!
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 02:06 PM
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You are absolutely right to bring up landing fish quickly. The oftener the better!

But the part about drag versus click and pawl is an old canard, many times refuted, and %95 untrue. Used CORRECTLY there is no difference, and there a very strong arguement that, short of breaking the fish off a few seconds into hooking one, when correctly used a click and pawl reel will land them FASTER. This is because a mere CONSTANT drag is not always the fastest way to land a fish. Trust me, when most of us hook a fish we are striving to apply maximum required pressure at all times - it is just that we can control it better throughout! To suggest that we are somehow standing there idly enjoying the sound is, as I’m sure you know from experience, ridiculous.

Yes perhaps there are some ignorants that don’t know what they are trying to do, but just as many (no MORE) with drag reels not set correctly that think they don’t have to pay attention anymore. If only I had a dollar for every time I saw someone improperly playing a fish with a modern drag reel! All the worst examples I can think of are like THAT. The important things is to know and understand that your goal is to land and release the fish as quickly as possible. Drag reeels, for the vast majority of the cases, contribute nothing at all to that over c&p reels, but do concribute a lot IMHO to giving the fisherman a false sense of getting a pass on then issue, and so potentially making it worse!

Of COURSE drags are useful if you are going after larger fish - where the length of the fight is going to be longer and the strength ratio between your tippet strength (and sometimes even your physical strength) to the strength of the fish is more in the fish’s advantage. At least people who us c&p reels are keenly aware that it is their OWN responsibility. Drag reels are in no way any kind of solution to this problem in the vast majority of cases, and may actually contribute to the problem in some people’s hands/heads.

Loudness: It depends on the context, and I agree there are many cases where I appreciate quiet. Dry flies in particular. Its not that it bothers the fish one bit, but it seems more at odds with the spirt of things. A lot of times you are stripping out right after you have stealthily stalked a fish and while generally the fish cant hear it can be mentally traumatic. But for swinging there is no substitute for loudness!

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 04-17-2019, 11:55 PM
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A side by side picure

Fwiw here is a side-by-side picture of them. Left to right: Marquis 7, Princess, Marquis 8/9, Wide Spool 3 3/8” Perfect. Here last two are IMO a bit on the heavy side for that rod, but the first two should be just right. For the record I’ve used the Marquis 7 for years and literally never had an issue with the line curling because of its so-called small radius, though I have had those issues a bit with the much smaller LRH lightweight - for me that is where the issue comes up. FWIW the line on the 7 there is for a 5wt switch rod and plenty of room for even that. The first two are equally nice prospects for your rod. The Princess is a tiny bit larger, while the Marquis 7 is palmable - a nice feature. As a general rule the Marquis reels can be picked up for less than the lightweights for similar condition.

Of course there are loads of other old, non-hardy ones that would be perfectly functional (like a medalist) you could pick up for less than $100 on eBay, even some for lesS than $50!
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