Underlining Two-Hander for Trout? - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 09-30-2018, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Question Underlining Two-Hander for Trout?

Was wondering if anyone has tried underlining a 13-15 ft. light spey rod for trout fishing?

My 14' Meiser 5 wt. with a grain window of 350-500 likes a 55' spey line of 420 grains. That's great for trout of 2+ lbs. but too much rod for smaller trout.

Am particularly interested in any experience underlining below the grain window.

TIA

PS: Competent caster and would like to minimize discussions of rod loading except where it's a deal-breaker (rod will not load).
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 06:15 AM
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Two Hand rods which are long load quite a lot even without the line because of the Moment Of Inertia so you can cast narrow line loop to just a mono leader. It won't cast far but it is because of very low energy there comes to light line.

Esa
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 10:16 AM
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I think just do it if it is not too expensive for you to experiment. As a reference point, for the Meiser Rods I have used Scandi heads (not I cludi g the weight of regular mono tapered leaders of 15 - 20ish grains) that are right at the lower number on those windows. For example, I have a 13’ Meiser 5wt that has a lower window number of 300, and a 300 scandi is excellent - doesn’t feel like the edge of anything performance wise. There is, as implied by the grain window, still decent and proper loading and feel - a1 performance - at that weight. I’m sure you can cut that by even more. Another example - On another Meiser rod that had a lower window number of 500, a guide wanted to see me cast a 480 RAGE head, the heaviest one he had. Shear perfection with touch and go casts even though it was below the lower number. But I still got the next weight up when I got one of my own - personal taste. If you want a more subjective description of how underlining the Meiser rods feels, it feels like you are making the line do what you want, but with less tactile feedback, as you would expect. You see the rod loads just fine, you just feel it less, and the cast performance is excellent, at least down to 20-30 gr below the low number. I know that is pretty obvious - does that help at all? It is such a personal choice as to where that ideal balance of feedback vs elegance will be.

Long story short, the range of ok performance is much larger than the range of what many people would feel would be ideal for THEM, as I’m sure you already know. That is mostly about the feel of casting people are after, and may prefer, but not to be confused with objective performance. So try a 330-350 scandi on your rod with confidence (it WILL work fine) and see if it feels more like what you are after.

You will certainly get a more delicate feeling action out of your casting, but probably the best way to enjoy an elegant experience with small trout would be to underline AND go to a lighter rod that makes a 10” fish seem like something. But one adjustment at a time, right?

“Gravity is a harsh mistress!”, The Tick

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowstone406 View Post
Was wondering if anyone has tried underlining a 13-15 ft. light spey rod for trout fishing?

My 14' Meiser 5 wt. with a grain window of 350-500 likes a 55' spey line of 420 grains. That's great for trout of 2+ lbs. but too much rod for smaller trout.

Am particularly interested in any experience underlining below the grain window.

TIA

PS: Competent caster and would like to minimize discussions of rod loading except where it's a deal-breaker (rod will not load).
I would give Poppy at the Red Shed a call and see if he can send you some lines to demo. He's pretty reasonable on them and if you like one, you can just buy it and keep it and send the others back.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 03:35 PM
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Not to be snarky but isn't to much rod, too much rod whatever the line wt?

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 04:51 PM
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Now, please tell me. How is one to justify more rods with that thinking?? Please.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowstone406 View Post
Was wondering if anyone has tried underlining a 13-15 ft. light spey rod for trout fishing?

My 14' Meiser 5 wt. with a grain window of 350-500 likes a 55' spey line of 420 grains. That's great for trout of 2+ lbs. but too much rod for smaller trout.

Am particularly interested in any experience underlining below the grain window.

TIA

PS: Competent caster and would like to minimize discussions of rod loading except where it's a deal-breaker (rod will not load).
I read this the day it was posted and now revisited it. I don't understand what you would expect to gain. I once mistakenly bought a 375 grain line in a moment of memory lapse I think it was...….. The rod requires at least a 475 to really bring it to life and myself and 2 other casters did our best to make the pair work. We could not make a decent cast unless I went to overhead style.

I catch almost all my trout / steelhead on a 14 foot 8 weight rod with a 600 grain Super Scandi 45 foot belly line. In my case there is no difference in the appreciation level between a 12 inch rainbow and a 30+ inch steelhead when it comes to any feel I get through the rod. The 12 inch fish are generally much easier to reel in and I do appreciate that part.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 08:26 PM
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While the mass of the line in the water may make some difference, I think it's really the strength of the rod that's making your fish feel less significant than you'd like. I think a lighter rod is the answer to that.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-01-2018, 11:58 PM
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That’s why I love my ARE 12’ 2/3 wt. There is NO fish that will not put a good bend in that thing!
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks all for your expert guidance. I lined the rod with a WF7F with a 'head' weight of 280 gr. yesterday and grass cast it. While an efficient loop is a challenge, it threw the entire line. I then took the setup on my local river. A 12" bow fell to a soft hackle and a 16-incher took a big skated Wulff. The 'feel' of both fish was MUCH improved, IMO due to the much smaller diameter of the WF line. IOW, the reduced line diameter sent the trouts' struggle to the rod instead of being absorbed by line drag.

Now it's a matter of finding a spey/switch/skagit floater with a diameter and configuration that works on the rod and on smaller trout (and on the 4-6 pounders on the Missouri later this month).

Thanks again. Having a great time with the long rods after 50+ years with a single-hander.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 12:50 PM
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For the smaller energetic trout a click and pawl reel with a light drag can really add to the fun as well.

"It is not the fish that is hard to figure out, but we the fishers, why we do what we do. For a fish survival is enough."
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 10-02-2018, 09:45 PM
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For the smaller energetic trout a click and pawl reel with a light drag can really add to the fun as well.
I use a simple Medalist for saltwater stripers and coho... talk about fun. But that's off topic, sorry.
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