Gear and 2 Hander Trout Tactics? - Spey Pages
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
montanafos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Big Sky Rivers & Clearwater River
Posts: 2,418
Gear and 2 Hander Trout Tactics?

Almost feel like I'm in unknown territory here. Very cool to see the quick response.

I'll start with a quick thread to get some responses hopefully. I have a DH4119 and a Sage 5120...neither of which have seen much use since I bought them. Honestly, I can't quite get my head wrapped around the 2 hander for trout. I'm accustomed to my 4wt for dries on the bighorn and a 5wt for a nymph and dropper. The Yellowstone...same applications...just a size up for each rod.

I bought the trout speys with the intent of swinging for trout for instance as I have FAR more time on trout rivers than I do steelhead waters as steelhead are 10 hours from me. For the folks who are using a 2 hander for trout...are you simply duplicating a steelhead swing with a bugger for instance through likely holding water? Are you casting across and down and then stripping leeches, etc? Are you fishing a nymph and a dropper with an indicator? Are you sticking to classic wet flies? I guess the same initial question would apply to guys with soft hackles...would love to hear some trout spey tactics and maybe details on what guys are using for gear.

My dilemma is that I'd know how to fish all of the above with a 7' to 9 1/2' rod...just becomes a bit more puzzling to me with 12' of rod as much of the water I fish I can easily handle with the smaller rods, but would love to fish the longer rods.

My gear:
DH4119 with a 40+ 6 and a Lamson LP3.5 reel
Sage 5120 with an Ambush 8 and a Lamson LP3.5 reel

Last edited by montanafos; 12-07-2014 at 07:15 PM.
montanafos is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 05:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: White River System
Posts: 361
MT,
Great initial post. These are the kinds of topics we need to discuss here. Though I may have initiated the plea for this forum, I am not one with all the answers, these are the kinds of things I want to discuss too!

I have been swinging nymphs, scuds, soft hackles, wooly buggers, and small streamers. I've also done some indicator nymphing with the long stick. For euronymphing I am still concentrating on longer single handed rods, but I have done a bit of high sticking with one of my trout speys.

I initially got interested in spey casting for trout to work on my casting technique. I live far away from any anadromous fishies so I only get in about 1 trip per year, or less for steel and salmon.

My rods of choice:
Anderson 11' 7" 4wt
Anderson 12' 5" 5 wt

I also have TFO DC 11' 4wt, but that isn't seeing any use since I got the little Anderson

Best Fishes,
Dave Cornue
Brookie is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 06:14 PM
All Tangled Up
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 669
I too started out speycasting with the intention of primarily targeting trout, and only later sidetracked into the steelhead game. So here is my personal experience, thrown out for comment, I certainly haven't figured this out either.

Most techniques you'd think commonly used for trout, I've tried at one point or another with a two-handed rod and/or a spey cast in the mix.

Tops for me, both in fun and productivity, have been soft hackles swung on a down and across presentation.

Second, believe it or not, have been dead-drifted dry flies. Maybe I should say 'damp flies', it takes some patience and creativity to keep them truly dry. But it can be done.

I have spent a lot of time swinging buggers and other small to medium streamers. In some rivers this has been quite productive -- often rivers that host steelhead runs in addition to resident trout. Is it something in the rainbow genetics? In others it has been hit and miss, I suspect I would be better off casting a single-hander and stripping. I'd be interested in others' experience of how different species in different habitat respond to a stripped vs. swung fly.

I have tried casting and stripping, and, with a spey rod, I don't enjoy this much and don't find it effective. Probably the latter is more a consequence of the former than the reverse.

I played around for a couple weeks speycasting an indicator rig. Didn't really enjoy it as the casting aspect is just not fun for me. A short switch rod can also be a very effective tool indicator fishing out of a boat. Easy to flop the rig around and the greater length and line control is nice. Caught a lot of fish this way but did not find this much fun either, past the catching fish part.


My rigs:
ACR 11'9" 3wt + a custom scandi. Favorite trout stick.
ACR 11'9" 5wt + Ballistic Vector 5/6 or a short skagit w/ tips.
Meiser 14'2" 4/6 Highlander + Aero 6/7 or NextCast WA55 5/6 w/ tips.

The last two are more light steelhead than trout sticks and a bit much for most trout, but, make bigger streamers, punching into the wind, or reaching for distance on big rivers easier.
troutless is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 07:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New England
Posts: 1,447
I have fished almost exclusively for the past 6 years with Trout Spey rods.

Mainly soft hackle and small wet flies presented in a downstream drag free drift at a very shallow angle. This will give a longer and deeper presentation in the seams than the traditional down and across at a steep angle (typically about 45 degrees). Scandi lines with relatively long leaders, 16' to 18' for the most efficient presentations.

The 5wt Spey rods also are excellent with Skagit lines from 325gr-375gr and sections of T8/T11 for deeper runs and pools.

To me, the advantage to the longer DH rods is line control, not distance.

Regards,
FK
FKrow is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 07:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West
Posts: 153
Very happy to add content to this new section of the forum.

ACR 11'7" 3wt
ACR 12'1" 5wt
Redington CPX 10'6" 5wt

I used everything from a skagit switch, Ambush, scandi, to short bellies on the above rods. Low flows, or dry flies, I'm using a tapered mono leader. For shallow water streamers and wets, I might use straight fluoro leaders. For wets and streamers in higher flows, poly leaders all the way up to T-8 work for me.

On my home river, my most used method is swinging and stripping streamers. Love the grab on aggressive fish. The Ambush line works well for this, because I do strip the fly back close to me. Swinging softhackles and nymphs produce well too. I'll cast across, let it dead drift, then swing it out. Most grabs come right when it starts to swing, but I get pickups on the dead drift too. When the hatch comes off, I'll dead drift dry flies. I'll use SA and T&G casts for dries. Key for me is to use powdered floatant to keep the fly on top. I don't catch a lot of fish this way, but it's fun for a change a pace.

briansII
briansII is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 08:24 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
montanafos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Big Sky Rivers & Clearwater River
Posts: 2,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKrow View Post
I have fished almost exclusively for the past 6 years with Trout Spey rods.

Mainly soft hackle and small wet flies presented in a downstream drag free drift at a very shallow angle. This will give a longer and deeper presentation in the seams than the traditional down and across at a steep angle (typically about 45 degrees). Scandi lines with relatively long leaders, 16' to 18' for the most efficient presentations.

The 5wt Spey rods also are excellent with Skagit lines from 325gr-375gr and sections of T8/T11 for deeper runs and pools.

To me, the advantage to the longer DH rods is line control, not distance.

Regards,
FK
How are you detecting takes on the slack line downstream drag free drift on the wets and soft hackles? Are the flies barely sub surface so you see the take...leader hesitation? I'm very pleased to see this forum addition as it's going to open up a whole new world of two handed casting for me. I generally leave the two handers at home and carry my old reliable RPL's.

Last edited by montanafos; 12-07-2014 at 09:19 PM.
montanafos is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 09:23 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 894
I've had good times with my 12' 6/7 using a 420 rage and the 10' of t8. All I do is a mend after the 45 down stream cast and as long as your line isn't crossing a seam it's no different than any other cast. As for slack in the line, that's tough without an indicator. Awesome new forum here

sent from the North Pole
coastrider is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 11:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: OR
Posts: 2,904
Quote:
Originally Posted by montanafos View Post
DH4119 with a 40+ 6
That is a really sweet combo, montana. I sold my DH4119 when I got ,my 11'7 45 Meis, but I that was one of the first trout wt 2h rods I had. The 40+ 6 is really nice for swinging wets and small streamers, and will carry 5 and 10 ft polys. When I wanted to throw sculpins, I used a 300 grain skagit.

A 4/5 afs is also sweet, but then I think it's the same taper as the 40+.

I fish them the same way I do steelhead, which is swinging to one degree or another. In the right run, cross stream cast, angle determined by the depth I'm after. In the more typical mid-sized eastern streams, I will swing specific spots- eddies, tailout, deeper passes in run. Often times setting up and mending just to have the swing I'm after in a narrow slot or some other location.

Currently have the Meiser 11'7 45, with a Godshall scandit and scandi, a 325 skagit, and a 330 Rage. Love it with all three.
Also have a 10'6 4 Meis I built. Use the 40+ 6 wt, or a 300 gr skagit.

Hoping to get an anglers Roost 12' 2/3 built this winter if time allows.

I mostly swing a small sculpin or a small squirrel leach. Sometimes some traditional soft hackles.
SLSS is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 11:33 PM
Registered User
 
athabascae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Yukon
Posts: 678
As for gear:

For my trout, grayling and smallmouth needs I'm currently very happy with an Anderson ACR 11'7" 3 weight - what a rod!

I use 240-280 scandi heads, mostly with polyleaders, exclusively on this rod, and feel that is a great range for trout swinging. Airflo, Rio, SGS, and Beulah all make great scandi heads in the 240-280 range. I'm a big fan of rage or rage-type lines on my heavier rods - they are better in the wind or with heavier flies - and I lament that Airflo doesn't make a sub-300 Rage, because I think a 270 rage would absolutely rock on my 1173.

I also very much enjoy my 10'6" Beulah 4/5 wt Classic Switch. I use the same lines as on my Anderson, and I also put 7/8 wt single hand lines on it to overhead cast, which it does very well. I love this rod from a float tube or my watermaster.

Both rods have their own Islander FR2 hanging on them. They may be a tad heavy on these light trout two-handed rods for most folks taste, they feel and look perfect to me.

These rods are so much more fun than the heavier 5, 6 or 6/7 weight rods that I used to use for trout and grayling (although I still use a 6/7 for lake trout).

If I were to add another trout rod to my current collection (which I likely won't anytime soon), it would be an Anderson 12'1" 4 weight or, perhaps, the 12'5" 5 weight. Gary has these trout speys nailed.

Trout and grayling fishing on a two-hander is a hoot. My single handers and my tenkara rod don't see the light of day much, unfortunately.

I mostly swing on moving water, but also love stripping streamers. For the later, I'm interested in the new Airflo lines apparently coming out, although they too don't dip below 300 grains, which is a shame.

I don't do much dry fly fishing these days, but when I do I pull out my 7'9" Sage LL 3 wt.

Tom

Last edited by athabascae; 12-08-2014 at 12:14 AM.
athabascae is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
montanafos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Big Sky Rivers & Clearwater River
Posts: 2,418
Quote:
Originally Posted by coastrider View Post
I've had good times with my 12' 6/7 using a 420 rage and the 10' of t8. All I do is a mend after the 45 down stream cast and as long as your line isn't crossing a seam it's no different than any other cast. As for slack in the line, that's tough without an indicator. Awesome new forum here

sent from the North Pole
Appreciate the reply. I was assuming no indicator and was having a hard time with that. Same fishing essentially...just different gear and advantages of line control with the longer rod versus a single hander.

Last edited by montanafos; 12-08-2014 at 12:05 AM.
montanafos is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 11:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: SWPA
Posts: 79
I suppose I'll chime in on this one too. My primary trout two hander is an Echo SR. in a 4wt. I'm using a custom Skandit from SGS, though I'm thinking I'll give the Ambush a try soon enough.

On the wish list are an Echo SR 3wt or one of the upcoming glass switches, which I think should be a real trip for soft hackles and small streamers.
foureyedgeek is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 11:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NE MICHIGAN
Posts: 249
I got started from reading the big Trey Combs book a couple years after I got started in fly fishing. Reading the diagrams and took it from there. In fact when I got the decho I stopped using bugs and went to swinging scaled down steelhead flies.
I think if you catch steelhead your set.
I just started using dry flies out of nessecity and foam helps.
I started on the Au sable which is a very large river which lent well to a typical scaled down steelhead rig. Now I fish on smaller river and find short poly leaders work better then long sink tips.
I don't get worked up about match the hatch. Unless I see allot of top water activity.

People on this this site have been very, very helpful.

I'm not certain but I rarely cast big flies if I were going use a Skagit head stay under 300 depending how your going to set it up and size of the fish your after.

My set ups (on Skagits I typically use 10' versa leaders.)
7'6" batson 4wt w/ 6 wt line, 200 grn. Skagit. Great for small stream stalking.
10' Clearwater with 200 grn snowbee switch line & short polyleaders
7'6" 756 Feralite 250-275 grain Skagit
11'7 ACR 3wt Scandi head and polyleaders, 250 grain Skagit.
4/5/6 12'6" Meiser thinking of going back to the CND 5/6

John
krumpkoolidge is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 12:08 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Columbia River Genelle BC
Posts: 211
Trout on spey

First I am as newbie spey as it gets. Having stated that I finally started to get some fish numbers this year. If I had one thing to pin my success on it would be the proper fly. When fishing in the early summer I would go to a stones. when the small caddis showed up soft hackles Late summer sculpin and minnows, then the October caddis until November.

When fishing with a single hand I always put the fly at 25% of the equation with a spey it is more like 50%

As far as technique; long leaders 15' + and light presentations casts. Set the hook about 2 seconds after the hit that pause seems to make all the difference,


It also helps to leave the other sticks at home

Grant
Cicada is online now  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 12:25 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3
Cast/fished it for the first time today. Winston Microspey 4 wt with an Airflo 270 Scandi and Rio 325 Skagit short. 10 ft Type 3 polyleader or 10 ft T-6 with a short section of 2X fluoro. Swung woolly boogers and bunny leaches on the Arkansas for a few hours this afternoon. Only caught a half dozen little fish, but the rod rocks! It is a true trout rod and not a small steelhead rod, and can still send out 60+ ft casts with minimal effort. I love my new toy!
Olddoc is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 12:34 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New England
Posts: 1,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by montanafos View Post
How are you detecting takes on the slack line downstream drag free drift on the wets and soft hackles? Are the flies barely sub surface so you see the take...leader hesitation? I'm very pleased to see this forum addition as it's going to open up a whole new world of two handed casting for me. I generally leave the two handers at home and carry my old reliable RPL's.
The fish hook themselves on the downstream drift,, the fly is fairly deep in the seam not sub surface,,, that is the key to this type of presentation. The line can also be pulsed with the rod tip to give some additional fly motion.

Too much slack and you get no feedback, nearly impossible to detect strikes.

Regards,
FK
FKrow is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Spey Pages forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome