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What length by wt. should trout speys be?

13K views 51 replies 34 participants last post by  BJay 
#1 ·
I took a Sage 000 3pc. blank-7'10" and added a small spey handle for a total of 9'2". that liked 119 grains. lightest fishing rod to date from me. But I have also built a 8'9" spey that liked 325 grains for a 5 year girl who wanted to fish like Mommy and Daddy. I also have some customers that like my 15' 5 wt. So the question is what length and weights make sense ?
All Good Things,
Gary Anderson
 
#3 ·
My trout spey preferred length is 11'6" to 12'6" with grain weights from 250 to 350 with scandi.

That said now considering a longer trout spey that can handle longer lines with less stripping in cold weather conditions. Any thoughts on longer lines with a 5 weight?

current lineup:
11'5"- 5wt
11'7" -3wt
11'7" -4wt
11'7" -5wt
11'9" -5wt
12'1" -5wt
 
#4 ·
I would say it depends on how big your river is and how far you need to cast and of course how big your trout are cuz there are trout and then there are TROUT!
 
#11 ·
I would say it depends on how big your river is and how far you need to cast
I second this. Seems silly to use a 11' or 12' rod if the river isn't really wide. I think for myself I'd use spey casts with a single hander as you'd be fishing fairly close to yourself. My skagit head is 20' plus 12-15' of leader and 11' of rod, that would get me almost all the way across a small trout stream without having to shoot anything. That being said, I would start at 11' for a 3wt and 4wt then 11'6" for a 5wt
 
#6 ·
Hi Gary,

I've seen a lot of variations but some that stick out for me are my Beulah Platinum switch 6wt at 10'4" and it casts scandi and skagit heads like a dream. I actually cast this much better than my 11'7" 5wt. Another variation on lengths that I've seen is Ed Ward's video on youtube of him casting his micro skagit lines with OPST here. That rod is a 4/5 weight and comes in at 9'. The casting is simply amazing to watch in that video.

Also seen some trout speys featured on 2handedtrout, one being the 3wt 11'9" spey you made. ;)

Anyways I'm sure you knew about these rod/weight comparisons since you know a thing or two about fly rods, but to make this long story short I feel like I prefer fishing the shorter rods when is comes to the lighter weight rods and trout. Though there is so much personal preference in this sport that I can only speak for myself. Also a disclaimer; I am no expert and this is just my 2¢.

Bob
 
#7 ·
Length 11' - 12'. I think line weight is more important however. An 8 inch trout might be able to put a bend in a rod but it can't pull against a 350 grain skagit head. When I was on the Bighorn this past fall 16 inch fish had a tough time putting up a decent fight on a 350 grain line. Yes the rod bent but all I could think about is that skagit head was like the inflatable barrels they use when harpooning sharks. There is so much resistance on the line the fish has no chance. I think true trout speys have to be in the 150 - 250 range. This would be for most trout for enormous size fish you can use the larger grain weights. The 11' footer I use now (rated as a 3/4 for single hand) casts a 225 grain line real nice and a 15' trout actually bends the rod into the cork. The longer the rod the stiffer the butt needs to be to support the tip. (I'm not a rod maker but this is my experience), so shorter is better.
 
#8 ·
It would be nice to see some rod designers building some ultra light 13 or 14 footers in the 200-300 grain range! I fish a 12 foot 2/3 A.R.E at 250 grains which is great but a longer stick would be a blast. Problem is you'd be strapped for finding a line with the appropriate length, taper and weight to get the job done. I'm sure Godshall would be able to build something up.
 
#9 ·
Hmmmm,

I can see myself using rods from 12' to 16' for trout. A light 14' 3/4wt. Would be wonderful. Find myself fishing trout on the same runs as steelhead and needing at least as much line control/mending, if not more, fishing for trout. And like I plugged for last week when I bought that 8/9 Nova last, a 14' 6wt. Would be just the ticket for BIG trout and summer steelhead!
 
#10 ·
Based on Ed's video, I put together two rods. These were previously back up rods. One a 9' 4wt and a 9' 5wt. I added a bottom handle to each. I can comfortably fish 70' of line on each. I experimented with lines. I've used a 210 rio scandi and a Beulah 250 elixir on the 4wt. I've used a 250 gr rio Skagit max short and a 290 gr Ambush for the 5wt. The 4 wt is perfect for wets and soft hackles and the 5 wt is perfect for small streamers with light tips. Of course my home waters are fairly small. IMHO length is a function of distance needed.
 
#12 ·
Far from an expert, but I fish an 11 2/3 I built up and really like that length. I can cast plenty far enough to cast across the most streams I usually fish. Plus there were times this fall fishing a smaller stream that has a landlocked salmon run that I thought I should bring this rod out because of the awesome line control I get with the length. Also agree that line weight is key - I fish a line that SGS built for the rod that is somewhere between 200 and 250 grains if memory serves, and it is light enough so that you don't have the line basically fighting the fish by itself (as mentioned above) on a 16" fish. My 2 cents ...
 
#13 ·
I would have to agree about river size ,fish size , fly size and currents. For the rivers I fish trout, a 119 grainer in the 11' +/- size would be great for a true trouter. Question! Will it handle any type of tips? When you get into the bigger trout waters and want to offer something big down deep to the meat eaters you almost need to go up to a light steelhead stick 5/6 for those 6+lb trout. That's what I love about your line up of rods Gary, you have pretty much have every scenario covered! Loving the 1172 , but a 119 grainer.... I would love to give it a go!
 
#14 ·
I have four trout-speys laying around the house.

A 9’3” bamboo (that I like with about 190 grains)
A 10’ graphite with a 200-230 grain window.
A 12’ graphite with a 240-300 grain window.
A 12’ graphite with a 210- 265 grain window.

They are normally used on very different streams. Last year I used the bamboo on the Madison River in YNP and just below the lakes, but found it a bit short for some of the casts I needed to make at times (70ft). I would have been better off with the 12ft 3/4wt. The 10ft 2/3wt and the 12ft 3/4wt are the mainstays. The 10fter pulls warm water duties too. I can use the 12ft 3/4wt on tailwaters during the winter in Arkansas to go along with it’s time in WY/MT. However, the 12ft 2/3wt may see a bunch of time next year, hopefully in OR this Spring and MT in the Fall.

I like the little 10ft for its lightness, but if the stream is of any size the 12ft is nicer for its mending abilities. I hope to add a 10’9” 3/4wt bamboo in the next year.

I’ve made a few short bamboo (9ft) micro-Skagit rods for some friends (all around 200-230 grains), and I’m being asked to modify more 9ft 5/6wts graphite rods to two handed rods. My seven-year-old daughter will start using a 10ft 2/3wt this winter/spring.

I’m not sure about going over 12ft for the trout stuff, especially in the 2/3/4wt realm. I would be concerned that the lower section would become too stiff for a 200/250 grain rod to allow the fish to be fun.

I guess my very long winded and rambling answer it depends on the size of the stream and size of fish.
 
#15 ·
Agree that it depends upon the size of the water.

I have made up a 9ft 4wt trout rod with longer cork and comfortably cast spey RIO Trout LT lines and short custom cut Skagit lines.

Generally up to about 12'6" is the standard for 5wt trout speys with many fine casting rods from 10' to 12' in length.

Regards,
FK
 
#16 ·
Somebody has to say it

Aside from your five year old who wants to fish a two hand rod, I see absolutely zero need for these so called "trout spey" rods. Come on, trout fishing has gotten by for hundreds of years with single hand rods most of which, up until recently, never went over nine feet in length.

It used to be that a nine foot 6wt SH rod was considered the holy grail for trout fishing. Perhaps when throwing hoppers towards the bank while fishing from a drift boat, that amount of power may be an asset. However, for probably 95% of trout fishing, a 4 or 5 wt is more than adequate. And for many small creeks, and rivers that should really be called creeks, shorter, lighter weight rods are much better suited to the task. After all, how much rod to you need to delicately present a #10 green drake? And that is a large fly as trout fishing goes.

But hey, if one has money to burn, and/or doesn't mind f***ing up a perfectly good single hand rod,,,,Have at it. The traditional guys are gonna love you when you show up on their water water with your "trout speys".
 
#19 ·
Aside from your five year old who wants to fish a two hand rod, I see absolutely zero need for these so called "trout spey" rods. Come on, trout fishing has gotten by for hundreds of years with single hand rods most of which, up until recently, never went over nine feet in length.

It used to be that a nine foot 6wt SH rod was considered the holy grail for trout fishing. Perhaps when throwing hoppers towards the bank while fishing from a drift boat, that amount of power may be an asset. However, for probably 95% of trout fishing, a 4 or 5 wt is more than adequate. And for many small creeks, and rivers that should really be called creeks, shorter, lighter weight rods are much better suited to the task. After all, how much rod to you need to delicately present a #10 green drake? And that is a large fly as trout fishing goes.

But hey, if one has money to burn, and/or doesn't mind f***ing up a perfectly good single hand rod,,,,Have at it. The traditional guys are gonna love you when you show up on their water water with your "trout speys".

If this is in response to my post on the 9' 4wt micro spey conversion?

No comment or desire to justify to the "experts" on Speypages.

Regards,
FK
 
#21 ·
my preference

I often walk some distance to my trout, so while I may have 3 rods ready, I will only take in one (and wife takes in another).

I will usually take in 12'6" trout spey, as I know prefer to swing a fly and prefer the control of the long rod using a Scandi. If things get tight, I shift to a French Leader and fish the pockets close in. Occasionally, I have open up with an overhand cast.

For Gary, in a trout spey, I have alway wondered about longer, such as Bob's 15'9" 5wt, never shorter.

As far as the other 2 rods. Judy still prefers a fast graphite, but maybe on the cusp of changing, so we will have a Scott STS 5wt line up, forget which RIO line.

And I still fish with dry flies with a 8'2" Don Anderson 5wt Bamboo with either a Courtland DT or Phoenix silk line. As i will use many different casts, from a tradition overhead, to double-haul to steeple to a double spey, i feel have things covered in a single hand today. never the less, dragging a traditional dry fly in a set up for a perry poke is not going to help it to float high.

Next year, probably have a Fiberglass Tom Morgan 4wt to try out and interest in Gary's 1173.
 
#23 ·
Trout spey thoughts

Depends on the river. I fish rod lengths from single hand 7'-6" to double hand 12'-6". All line systems still have their place. I"m thinking more long line and scandi. But Skagits when it's windy and or you want to cast big huge flies. On my home river 40 to 50 feet or less wide in Michigan you can use any length up to 12 feet and then things get cumbersome. But on the nearby Ausable, big water, a 12'-6" or better is doable. But my ACR 11'-7, 3wt is really about prefect, a bit longer would better to get away from using a shooting head to go to a long line.

I don't think of this as typical trout fishing casting flys like a #10 caddis but rather more steelhead style streamers or the big ugly modern stuff.
I don't fish large flies often but do fish the same #4 nymph hook streamer on all my gear.

Your set up can be as expensive and complicated as you want it to be.

Also to mention spey gear lets you fish a little safer and follow tighter to the river bank.

Question: What does it take to make a longer rod to handle longer lines better for trout fishing?

I have a Meiser 12'6, 4/5/6 with a CND 5/6 or a 340 Scandi and versileader in this combination fished about equal to a 4wt Decho but a shade more powerful. It would be nice to have a step or two lighter and longer.
 
#25 ·
I like my trout two handlers in the 9 to 11 foot range and in the SH 4 or 5 weight range. I find that more rod than that is just too much for my local trout that average 8 to 16 inches.
 
#27 ·
I use my 5115 all the time on a trout river. Most of the trout are the size of small steelhead and a few bigger, like up to say 17 pounds or so. I always used a 7 weight single handler before Mr Burkheimer invented that little jewel. This has opened up much more water to me and has become my go too rod. So I like mine at 11.5 .

Rob is that 9' A hint at things to come ??? Because I can't Waite.
 
#31 ·
I use my 5115 all the time on a trout river
Took a long time to find the right fit for this little Burkie rod in my bag of tricks. After a year of ignoring the stick (I actually put it up for sale at one point) it has since proven to be my go to light skagit streamer rod after finding the right line match. Powerful and smooth. Why Burkheimer is so slow in bringing out lighter weight trout speys is beyond me. I think it's been over 4 years since talk of a lighter trout spey. The Manhattan Project took less time. I think Burkheimer is scared of the competition and rightly so with Sage and Anderson blazing the trout spey trail. I'm perfectly satisfied with the ACR's, but wished Anderson would now come out with a 13'ish 5 weight with similar action as the 11'7" series that could handle longer lines. ????
 
#28 ·
So the question is what length and weights make sense ?
All Good Things,
Gary Anderson
Hi Gary,
I'd say right about 11' 7" ;):hihi:;):hihi:

I have not yet cast a shorter trout two hander except for my TFO DC 11 ft 4wt (which is faster like a switch rod and not so much of a spey rod IMO -- after getting one of your 1174s I have "seen the light"). Two years ago at Sandy River Spey Clave you had a 10 footer made from a Sage ESN blank that I didn't get to cast -- I was too busy picking out a 6wt and a 4 wt:smokin: I'd like to try some rods in the 10' to 11" range that have a spey rod action (i.e., not a faster switch rod action), but I am pretty happy with the 117 formula you have established so well. Below about 11 feet I figure I would just use a single hander and a spey cast if my back was up against a lot of brush, but I suppose it would be nice to have a lower handle to put your bottom hand on. If a 10 to 11 ft spey rod could also serve really well as a euro-nymphing rod, then I would be really intrigued by that. :smokin:

With all of the above in mind, I am real curious to see your new, shorter rods.
 
#29 ·
What I notice in my area, is how few people who fish trout neither know or use spey casts with there single hand rods. We know all the extra advantages they bring to the table,but in my MHO the biggest advantage is the Cackhand. I can do a lot more and a lot better from my weak side with a 2 hand rod. So my goal is to add a micro butt to all to all my trout rods I found you don't need much to hold on to. For my fishing area, I normally up line, so throwing a weighted bugger on a windy day or any day from my weak side is a lot more reliable. What ever floats your boat but I see the biggest bang for your buck is the technique even if your using a very short rod. slack
 
#35 ·
What I notice in my area, is how few people who fish trout neither know or use spey casts with there single hand rods. We know all the extra advantages they bring to the table,but in my MHO the biggest advantage is the Cackhand. I can do a lot more and a lot better from my weak side with a 2 hand rod.
Totally agree with this comment. I've been surprised talking to many first-rate two handed casters, and single-hand overhead casters, that have relatively little experience with or interest in single-handed spey casting, despite that it opens up huge new trout fishing possibilities. Not a lot of trout fisherman use the technique it seems, judging from what I see on the water. Now where things get tricky are where a weak side cast is needed. The set of casters who can make an effective weak-side single-handed spey cast, at distance (double haul perhaps thrown in too) seems to be pretty limited. This is where the light trout speys have a nice niche. Plus if you are casting out further than a comfortable single-handed spey cast, the extra line control of the longer rod is huge.
 
#30 ·
So far, for me, the perfect trout spey length and grain window is from 10'6" to 11'7" and grain weights of roughly 210-280. Super fun.

I'm not particularly interested in going too much higher or lower in length or grains. (Although I am tempted a bit by a 12' - 12'6" that can manage 300-330 grains for big, windy rivers).

Tom
 
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