Nice little diddy on the Dean - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Nice little diddy on the Dean

It's a small promo for a guide but some great footage and casting. I never understood picking a fish up to show the next guy, especially when they are big and wild

Enjoy!



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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 10:46 AM
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Some beautiful fish there though.

Thanks for posting that, I must go & buy some lottery tickets now - & cross my fingers!

Regards, Tyke.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 12:26 PM
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Agree with the not understanding the fish out of water thing. When that one guy started walking forward while holding the fish out I uttered to myself "Put the fish back in the water *^#$% ! "

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 01:58 PM
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BC must adopt a law, KEEP THEM WET!
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 02:26 PM
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Maybe Tyke can chime in on this one (being a salmon angler in the UK, which has a long tradition of catch and release for all species, plus atlantic salmon for conservation reasons), are atlantic salmon as seemingly fragile out of the water as it is suggested steelhead are.

I remember an article in Outdoor Canada magazine discussing that the practice of 'beaching' various species on the West Coast can substabtially increase mortality due to the damage of sand and stones. Very few anglers seem to carry a net, happily beach their fish, yet preach the doctrine to 'keep them wet'. UK salmon anglers traditionally net their fish, using knotless and fine meshed landing nets.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 02:37 PM
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C & r

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Originally Posted by MHC View Post
Maybe Tyke can chime in on this one (being a salmon angler in the UK, which has a long tradition of catch and release for all species, plus atlantic salmon for conservation reasons), are atlantic salmon as seemingly fragile out of the water as it is suggested steelhead are.

Malcolm
Quite a long read, but may answer your question. Maybe we should take more rods, and less cameras fishing..

http://0104.nccdn.net/1_5/2e9/3c5/2c...-practices.pdf

You can catch a lot of fish, and you can keep a lot of fish. But you can't do both very long. Jim Timmins
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Despite the fine descrepencies among the members of this forum, its poignant that we even discuss the subject or that there has been research on the negative impact of certain or any fish handling practices. It shows a reverence and respect from the angler to the catch, for life and the tradition of honor in sport.

If you walk down to your local pier or visit one, you will see literally nightmarish treatment of any fish that has the misfortune to be caught along the boardwalk

Consider yourselves at the higher end of the echelon. Even professional guides and lodges demonstrate gill fuking fish to the camera and long exposure to very prized fish. On camera. Don't count on a guide telling a high paying client "to keep it wet". Repeatedly.

You can bet in the PNW they aren't just catching Atlantics during the current frenzy. If this tells you anything about human nature or what the future holds. We might be outraged by shark fin soup or the bloody massacre of dolphins, whale hunting etc; Americans (in any case) aren't far behind especially since you can now hunt from a chopper

Digressing . . .
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-27-2017, 04:16 PM
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To answer Mike's question the evidence from tagging & repeat captures would seem to suggest that providing they are correctly handled Atlantic Salmon survive & recover from capture & go on to spawn. As the majority of salmon die after spawning (not all though, a few make it back - mainly females I understand as they leave after spawning whereas the cocks stay on & guard the redds) it's hard to determine if capture reduces post spawning survival amongst those few that would otherwise have made it back to sea as this tends to depend on the conditions each season - some high water levels in Feb & March can help with pushing the kelts back downstream.

For me, the ideal is to net the fish in a large soft knotless mesh net (generally a Gye net of 24 inch diameter head) & to keep the fish in the net in a quiet piece of water whilst unhooking it. Then to gently lift it from the net keeping it horizontal & the right way up whilst in the surface layers of the water - although if you have to wade to a spot to return it safely then lift it clear if you need this to balance, a few seconds air time will do less harm than dropping it or falling on the fish. Then place the fish in a decent flow so it gets plenty of water through its gills to help it reoxygenate & support it facing upstream until you feel it recover & swim off under its own power (hint - you will get very cold hands when catching springers in February!).

As long as you don't beach a fish by dragging it out onto rocks or sharp gravel where it can thrash & injure itself, always make sure your' hands are thoroughly wet before handling a fish, & never lift it by the tail as this causes damage to the spine & ligaments to the tail, but support it gently under the belly whilst holding the tail to control the fish; then I believe the fish will survive capture & swim off OK.

Other points are fight it hard & get it in as quickly as possible, don't fish too light so the fight is prolonged. If permitted, then on larger flies / tubes for heavy water consider using a double hook of say a size 6 rather than a single size 2/0. This will give a secure & strong hook hold but because of the smaller gape & angle of the hooks relative to the shank it won't penetrate anywhere near as deeply as a large single & so is much less likely to pierce a blood vessel or damage deep tissues. A lot of anglers believe the large single does less damage, I have found the reverse to be the case & twice had fish die due to taking a large single well back in the mouth - admittedly both were small grilse but that wouldn't have happened with a smaller double (fortunately at the time a fish could be retained & they were delicious, but I would have preferred to be able to return them safely).

So in conclusion, I feel a few seconds out of the water, whilst not ideal, is less harmful than thrashing around on a rocky bank whilst trying to beach a fish in a difficult location. Net = good, rocks = bad.

Regards, Tyke.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 02:33 PM
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Think about a fish out of water like this; Imagine you have just ran a couple of miles and then someone holds your head under water while you try to catch your breath. This is what a fish will feel like when after a fight, you hold him out of water as he struggles to breathe. KEEP EM WET!!!!
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 03:39 PM
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I am not sure the analogy bears up as species vary in their robustness, for want of a better word, when caught, some being more 'fragile' than others. Eels can travel over land between water bodies, carp can be transported alive in wet moss, catfish can live for hours out of water, pike seem to be hardier than muskie etc.

My earlier question was to compare atlantics and steelhead, due to the 'keep them wet' mantra often mentioned. As Tyke kindly replied, large landing nets are often used to land atlantics which (I agree) enable anglers to safely land them (alone if need be) without the hazards of beaching, weigh them without harm securely in the net (optional), and most importantly, give the fish ample time to recover in often frigid water facing upstream. The danger of the 'dont touch them no hero shots and keep them in the water' is that a tired fish may be turned off the hook in the water and will drift down stream without the strength to survive. This was mentioned in the research PDF posted earlier on in this thread. I am not convinced hand tailing does no harm as steelhead do not have a 'wrist' like atlantics do in their tails. Holding a fish by its tail on landing can remove both slime and scales in that area and put considerable strain on their spines.

I rarely if ever see a steelhead angler using a landing net, the fish would be far better off, not just 'keeping them wet' but ensuring that they survive as best they can.

There is also the added bonus of admiring the fish as it recovers in the folds of the net, where it can be also photographed(optional), fully immersed in shallow water till it, rather than the angler, decides that it is ready to go.

Malcolm
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 04:25 PM
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As been stated here in the past by a retired biologist, he ran a brood stock program that had severely more time out of water, and some would consider down right brutal rough handling. Yet there was very high rate of egg to fry survival and fry to smolt survival, and has stated steelhead are far more hardy than the current naysayers are preaching. Ever watch fish jump or try to jump falls? And the analogy of sprinting a hundred yard dash and then stick your head in the water is so far fetched it's not plausible as fish absorb air molecule from the water that is trapped in their gills, if the gills are wet their absorbing air molecules. Now every fish needs to be treated with respect and handled with care but we don't need to baby them like their made out of glass.

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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017, 08:45 PM
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I believe that being out of the water for a few seconds, whilst far from being optimal, is far less damaging than beaching on rocks or rough gravel, or over-handling the fish as both of these result in a loss of protective slime & the risk of fungal infections which can & do kill fish before they can spawn.

A fish may be observed to swim off strongly after such treatment, but one of our' Atlantics caught in March may not spawn until the end of November - that's 9 months to survive through the warm water conditions of summer (honestly, contrary to popular belief we do get summers in the U.K. - well most years anyway....) and to do this these need that protective coating.

Late season one often sees fungal covered fish lying torpid in slack water alongside the bank - it would be interesting to know what % of these were previous captures & what steps we could take to prevent this?

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