Loop Shape: Educate me... - Page 2 - Spey Pages
 44Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-23-2019, 08:53 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
SkagitMiester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Deschutes
Posts: 2,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riveraddict View Post
of the same weight, but one that has a 5 to 7 foot back taper and see what effect that has on the casting "droop".

Tim,
My main intent of replying here was to say that I really like your description in one of your most recent vids of "casting the D towards 4 o'clock (paraphrasing here), because it seems it should be easily understood and visualized by most anyone. Simple and effective, I think much more so than my usual phrase of "D-loop should be directed 45 degrees back off of the casting shoulder". I'm going to use it in future casting instructions if'n that's OK with you.
Hi Ed, thanks for weighing in. I'm glad that description is accurate and jibes with what you teach and I'm glad you watched the video and can use the 4 o'clock description in your instruction.

Initially I learned it from Andrew Moy in one of his videos quite a while back where he recommends to stop the rod at 4:30 during the sweep, or sweep to 4:30, in doing the single spey. It made a huge difference in my casting, especially waterborne casts with longer lines and it morphed into the description on the video. I'd be honored if you used it! Thanks

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
SkagitMiester is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 02:57 PM
Registered User
 
fish0n4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The mid-Pacific.
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkagitMiester View Post
Doing Splash and go casts with a Skagit setup, I came across this video clip @ 0:15 and noticed the sharp downward trajectory of the line immediately after the hard stop on the forward stroke, the point of that downward wedge of line almost touches the water. I'm wondering if its wasted energy that could better utilized with different technique. Ideas?

Please use small words and short paragraphs.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxEMtLfyVps
That seems like a lot of rebound. You can clean it up and eliminate it all together --- if you wanted to. It is actually very easy.
SkagitMiester and Botsari like this.
fish0n4evr is offline  
post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
SkagitMiester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Deschutes
Posts: 2,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by fis'h0n4evr View Post
That seems like a lot of rebound. You can clean it up and eliminate it all together --- if you wanted to. It is actually very easy.
Okay Vic, I'm all ears! thanks in advance.
fisshman26, Attack and fish0n4evr like this.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
SkagitMiester is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 12:22 PM
Registered User
 
fish0n4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The mid-Pacific.
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkagitMiester View Post
Okay Vic, I'm all ears! thanks in advance.
Stop the rod and lower it just slightly. This will kill the deflection. Simple. The toughest part is trusting how well it works and having the discipline to back-off when instinct tells you to hit it harder.
SkagitMiester likes this.
fish0n4evr is offline  
post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 05:07 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clearwater, Ronde, OP
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish0n4evr View Post
Stop the rod and lower it just slightly. This will kill the deflection. Simple. The toughest part is trusting how well it works and having the discipline to back-off when instinct tells you to hit it harder.
A visual reference would be helpful. Can you record yourself doing this in slow-mo?
fisshman26 likes this.
Attack is offline  
post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 12:18 PM
Registered User
 
fish0n4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The mid-Pacific.
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Attack View Post
A visual reference would be helpful. Can you record yourself doing this in slow-mo?

That will require replacing the fly line in the reel with mono and rigging up a shooting head, and the recording...I'll see what I can do for you. No promises.

But not to leave you hanging - here's a vid of Mike Kinney showing how to reduce rebound by a big margin:

Lot of casts in the clip, including some single-spey casts. You can find and read his posts here about single speys done with shooting heads and weighted flies.
fish0n4evr is offline  
post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
SkagitMiester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Deschutes
Posts: 2,005
Awesome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fish0n4evr View Post
That will require replacing the fly line in the reel with mono and rigging up a shooting head, and the recording...I'll see what I can do for you. No promises.

But not to leave you hanging - here's a vid of Mike Kinney showing how to reduce rebound by a big margin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipiJHAHVXVk

Lot of casts in the clip, including some single-spey casts. You can find and read his posts here about single speys done with shooting heads and weighted flies.
Thats Awesome. My favorite cast is the Poke he does at 5:56. I love that high rod stop along with the way he pokes that wedge way out in front of him. I like doing that style of Poke too. Different than Eds but super cool and fun to watch!

Very Subtle what you are talking about Vic but I see it in some of the casts. Must be the follow through Jim Jones talks about in some of his posts. Thanks for the tip, I'll play with it. Of course by that time in the cast, if its long belly casting, I've usually forgotten to do a couple key things, but I'll see how it goes!
stosiak likes this.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
SkagitMiester is offline  
post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 03:36 PM
BULL DOG!!!!
 
fisshman26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: B.C.- trout and steelies
Posts: 1,554
These two are anxiously waiting to see video from the master
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	D30193E3-A53E-4811-B2F1-33974C7F4943.jpeg
Views:	19
Size:	1.00 MB
ID:	345670  
SkagitMiester and Rifflehitch like this.

Bruce Kruk
________________

Team Gaelforce

Columbia river guide, lenssportfishing-bc.com
fisshman26 is online now  
post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 02:26 PM
Registered User
 
fish0n4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The mid-Pacific.
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkagitMiester View Post
Thats Awesome. My favorite cast is the Poke he does at 5:56. I love that high rod stop along with the way he pokes that wedge way out in front of him. I like doing that style of Poke too. Different than Eds but super cool and fun to watch!

Very Subtle what you are talking about Vic but I see it in some of the casts. Must be the follow through Jim Jones talks about in some of his posts. Thanks for the tip, I'll play with it. Of course by that time in the cast, if its long belly casting, I've usually forgotten to do a couple key things, but I'll see how it goes!
Subtle? Big difference in practice, me thinks.

Shaping the loop:
The climbing loop - I think it's been brought up here and there. You mentioned the "tank tracks," our friend Esa may have alluded to it. A few other members (none here yet) have mentioned it in other related discussions so it seems well understood at least by some???



Practice is what it takes. IOW: Put it into action. Then at least you can come back and post your findings???
SkagitMiester likes this.
fish0n4evr is offline  
post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 05:15 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
SkagitMiester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Deschutes
Posts: 2,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish0n4evr View Post
Subtle? Big difference in practice, me thinks.

Shaping the loop:
The climbing loop - I think it's been brought up here and there. You mentioned the "tank tracks," our friend Esa may have alluded to it. A few other members (none here yet) have mentioned it in other related discussions so it seems well understood at least by some???



Practice is what it takes. IOW: Put it into action. Then at least you can come back and post your findings???
Another option might be that Mike is just casting like a normal human being with a softer stop and I'm slamming the holey heck out of the cast like my hair is on fire

IMO we are throwing two completely different casts, but I can produce a video with less rebound which will probably require nothing less than just mellowing out a little.
fisshman26 likes this.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
SkagitMiester is offline  
post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 11:49 AM
Registered User
 
fish0n4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The mid-Pacific.
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkagitMiester View Post
Another option might be that Mike is just casting like a normal human being with a softer stop and I'm slamming the holey heck out of the cast like my hair is on fire

IMO we are throwing two completely different casts, but I can produce a video with less rebound which will probably require nothing less than just mellowing out a little.
Affermative;
My opinion - you are hitting it pretty hard alright, on purpose or not, for the vid, or just how you do, the rebound does give shape to the loop. Seems and looks excessive and although rebound, the rod recovering from rebound like that does give shape to the loop - it can stand a little cleaned-up and now you know how if you didn't before and really wanted to. Or not. It really is up to you to a make difference there. Definitely not up to the other guy. Definitely not up to me. Truly OK with me either way.


and your vids are great - you bet I would watch.
SkagitMiester likes this.

Last edited by fish0n4evr; 07-14-2019 at 05:40 PM.
fish0n4evr is offline  
post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
SkagitMiester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Deschutes
Posts: 2,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by fish0n4evr View Post
Affermative;
My opinion - you are hitting it pretty hard alright, on purpose or not, for the vid, or just how you do, the rebound does give shape to the loop. Seems and looks excessive and although rebound, the rod recovering from rebound like that does give shape to the loop - it can stand a little cleaned-up and now you know how if you didn't before and really wanted to. Or not. It really is up to you to a make difference there. Definitely not up to the other guy. Definitely not up to me. Truly OK with me either way.


and your vids are great - you bet I would watch.
Thanks Vic, I appreciate the help. Thanks for your willingness to share ideas.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
SkagitMiester is offline  
post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-18-2019, 08:50 PM
Registered User
 
fish0n4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The mid-Pacific.
Posts: 4,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkagitMiester View Post
Thanks Vic, I appreciate the help. Thanks for your willingness to share ideas.
Sure - you bet.

Beginning with some part of the head within the guides, nice and easy with both hands, high stop and basically lowering the fly to the water - gradually increasing length of line the same way until the full body is beyond the tip top.

At least with high stop - the rod does deflect more down-range instead of down to the water...
SkagitMiester likes this.
fish0n4evr is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Spey Pages forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do you try to influence when a loop forms? yoda1 Technique 54 11-08-2016 12:48 PM
ELF Running line:Back-end loop moethedog Tackle 6 05-21-2011 06:41 PM
How do I make a loop in a shooting line? moethedog Tackle 10 11-22-2008 09:41 PM
V loop questions myfishcasting Technique 12 09-18-2008 09:47 AM
Spey loop different comared to single hand loop? Skycries57 Technique 3 10-10-2004 01:41 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome