How Far Are We Casting? - Page 4 - Spey Pages
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post #46 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 05:31 PM
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I'm thinking that one does not make 60 yard field goals, 500 foot home runs, or OhMyGawd spey casts with perfect technique alone. They take perfect technique combined with extra power.
There is power but applied in micro moments in the cast....the very best caster I know who has won sor more than anyone else will spend hours just practicing his angle change and looking for where his anchor lands without doing a single forward cast......technique far outweighs being big and strong
Ever made an amazing cast that just went out there perfect? I can can guarantee you put way less effort into that cast than when you are ‘trying to force’ it out there
Point being brute force does not outweigh technique

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post #47 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 08:30 PM
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Ever made an amazing cast that just went out there perfect? I can can guarantee you put way less effort into that cast than when you are ‘trying to force’ it out there
Point being brute force does not outweigh technique
Kinda like sh casting when folks last false cast is better than the cast they end with, the one with that extra bit of umph that creates the tailing loop.
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post #48 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-11-2019, 08:52 PM
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Come on. We've all seen guys trying to muscle it out there. No technique at all, cutting off the sweep, never letting the d loop form, all top hand, anchor 20 feet up stream. Smoothness and technique wins out every time. Being under control, to me, will always win out. Never seen a great caster who didn't make it look easy. Timing and technique.
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post #49 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 10:59 AM
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Kinda like sh casting when folks last false cast is better than the cast they end with, the one with that extra bit of umph that creates the tailing loop.
That sounds just like an embarrassing number of my SH casts. How did you know?!
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post #50 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-12-2019, 03:02 PM
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To argue the other side: when I was learning to spey cast, and many of my casts were going to be bad, I could sense during the cast (probably as I started the forward stroke) that my anchor was right and I was starting the forward stroke on time, that it was going to be a good cast; and it was. There's no substitute for excellent technique, and knowing when and how much power to apply is part of excellent technique. Of course, brute power is poor technique.
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post #51 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-15-2019, 01:18 PM
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[quote=fisshman26;2445690]
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Can you please elaborate on this statement Vic about brute force being a technique and give some examples
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There is power but applied in micro moments in the cast....the very best caster I know who has won sor more than anyone else will spend hours just practicing his angle change and looking for where his anchor lands without doing a single forward cast......technique far outweighs being big and strong
Ever made an amazing cast that just went out there perfect? I can can guarantee you put way less effort into that cast than when you are ‘trying to force’ it out there
Point being brute force does not outweigh technique

- and started to notice a pattern that the easiest casts are the most straightforward and basic. Simple fundamentals I keep talking about: Small stick, large d loop, and 180˚ out. I'll add "drift" to that technique. It is the same when spey casting and when casting over-head that when the back cast ( or dloop) is directly opposite of the intended direction that casts will be better and have potential to reach further for the given the effort.

Casting is an activity not entirely effortless and casting further takes more effort. Also the further from the basics the more effort that it takes.

What about intentional use of creep, soaking anchors, and setting anchors out and way? Those seem to go hand in hand or in part when describing several different techniques...
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post #52 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 10:06 PM
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- and started to notice a pattern that the easiest casts are the most straightforward and basic. Simple fundamentals I keep talking about: Small stick, large d loop, and 180˚ out. I'll add "drift" to that technique. It is the same when spey casting and when casting over-head that when the back cast ( or dloop) is directly opposite of the intended direction that casts will be better and have potential to reach further for the given the effort.

Casting is an activity not entirely effortless and casting further takes more effort. Also the further from the basics the more effort that it takes.

What about intentional use of creep, soaking anchors, and setting anchors out and way? Those seem to go hand in hand or in part when describing several different techniques...

So where does the brute force come into play as you suggested?

This video shows a very relaxed cast as the setup for the cast worked well.
I have over 110ft of line and leader outside the rod tip and shot a bunch of line......no brute force needed
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post #53 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 12:42 PM
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well over 700 grains of line too - I would bet. Do think that cast could do better and with less force by using more bottom hand at the very end of the cast?

Waited the whole second half of that clip for that lower hand to come up some and it doesn't... not once. Short clip too.

Bruce, did I not mention creep and soaking anchors and setting the anchor away when theres no reason to do so?
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post #54 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 01:17 PM
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well over 700 grains of line too - I would bet. Do think that cast could do better and with less force by using more bottom hand at the very end of the cast?

Waited the whole second half of that clip for that lower hand to come up some and it doesn't... not once. Short clip too.

Bruce, did I not mention creep and soaking anchors and setting the anchor away when theres no reason to do so?
Vic one day I would love to see video of you casting by the sounds of it I have much to learn from you
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post #55 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 12:46 AM
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I always like to picture 80 year old me out there trying to huck some line, and just cast that way. Interested more in longevity than hanging it in the trees on the far side. I was the same way off the tee in golf. The highway BESIDE the driving range had my name all over it when I really turned it up to 10. But there is always that naggy seam out 115 or so feet that would be nice to swing through when nobody else can. Sighhh. Really enjoyed that video though. Makes me want to go play in some still water.
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post #56 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 12:51 AM
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I always like to picture 80 year old me out there trying to huck some line, and just cast that way. Interested more in longevity than hanging it in the trees on the far side. I was the same way off the tee in golf. The highway BESIDE the driving range had my name all over it when I really turned it up to 10. But there is always that naggy seam out 115 or so feet that would be nice to swing through when nobody else can. Sighhh. Really enjoyed that video though. Makes me want to go play in some still water.
Thank you!
Was just out fishing on my local river actually, my fishing partner enjoys capturing it on video and it’s fun to share for those who enjoy it
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post #57 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 01:45 AM
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I'm pretty sure none of us on here cast as far as Zack did today.
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post #58 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 01:08 PM
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Of course more power is used when you want to cast further. But in my experience the feeling of using “brute force” indicates nothing other than WASTED energy. In truth you may be generating a lot of power in coordination with the rod flex and long lever arm, but for me when I start feeling that I am pushing things very hard I usually get better (and greater distance) results if I simply try to do the same thing with less of the thought of forcing things, and more of a thought of relaxing. Some may call that “dialing it back”, but for me it seems to get even better results. Maybe this is because I prefer medium-fast actioned rod, and when I get the feeling of forcing things I’m getting a bit out of sync and ahead of my rod. But is suspect the principle is more generally applicable. But IMO perfect timing and geometry will trump the feeling of applying more force every time. This isn’t the shot put - and maybe even the guys that are really good at THAT would even make the same arguement - it’s about the most efficient application of force with the tools at your disposal.
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post #59 of 162 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 01:24 PM
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Vic one day I would love to see video of you casting by the sounds of it I have much to learn from you
More likely that you won't learn anything from me that you don't already know and you don't need video. Just give it a try next time out if you don't already. See for yourself.

Besides --- it's mostly a matter of opinion. Do I have to know exactly how far Im casting as an a angler? No, not in my opinion.
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post #60 of 162 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=fisshman26;2447860]
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So where does the brute force come into play as you suggested?

This video shows a very relaxed cast as the setup for the cast worked well.
I have over 110ft of line and leader outside the rod tip and shot a bunch of line......no brute force needed
That is a pretty tight little casting stroke for a long belly. You make it look way too easy.
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Last edited by SkagitMiester; 05-01-2019 at 12:44 AM.
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