How Far Are We Casting? - Page 10 - Spey Pages
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post #136 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-21-2019, 07:50 PM
Jim
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Originally Posted by coug View Post
Boy that is obvious. The only offensive thing in this thread is by Attack, who says "the guy's forearms are the size of my thighs." Clearly a put down from a tall, skinny person with narrow thighs against those of us who are short and stout. I take offense and dam* all of you tall people with skinny thighs!
Is that like Popeye and Olive Oil ? How dare he?
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post #137 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-22-2019, 09:20 AM
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Hi Wetwader,

I am not sure what you are getting at below but I think you also failed to get my humor. In the below comment I was completely joking. I said "crap" in reference to the fact that he disproved my
entire case by mentioning Rajeff ... it was in good fun because yes, the guy's forearms are the size of my thighs.

I hope and think Troutless knew that.
Hi Attack,
thank you for your response and clarification. I didn’t feel “Attacked” in any way personally, just didn’t want to be misunderstood in humor and my joke, as others, that jumped in on my joke, over the next sides of this interesting thread.
Now it’s clarified both ways.
There wouldn’t be misunderstandings in a face to face situation. It’s the Internet communication without seeing each other and additional, without knowing each other. That’s why I am careful with words. One never knows...

I guess it’s the real world situation where one or two beers are opened together, to keep up the discussion about distance casting/How far are we casting...
Cheers

Time is running... A little bit of work, a little bit married, fishing, hunting... What else?

Last edited by Wetwader; 05-23-2019 at 06:25 AM.
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post #138 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 06:01 PM
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I'll attempt to keep this thread going.

At Golden Gate Angling and Casting Club, there is a wall that marks the end of the main pond. It is 152' from the casting station for the men. The first time you step in the pond it looks like it might as well be 200'. I would bet that almost every person who competes at SOR can remember the first cast they threw that hit "the wall" -- whether in practice or competing. If the wind is poor, even the best will struggle to get there.

A good drill for those looking to increase their distance, might be to find your current best cast, then find a marker 10' beyond that. Do it in actual distance, not strips of line. Experiment until you find a way to increase your range and hit that distance. The fundamentals and changes that it takes to do so might surprise you. At the very least, in the beginning, you will likely learn what doesn't work.
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post #139 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 06:02 PM
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Is that like Popeye and Olive Oil ? How dare he?
In my case, skinny arms, skinny legs, huge ass. Happy Gilmore would say I would make a great golfer.
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post #140 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 07:22 PM
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Hey Zack, my biggest fear is practicing bad habits then trying to change them when and if I find a mentor. Right now I can hit 120' 9 out of 10 right and left. At 130' a little less, and at 140' it is a disaster. Any tips on consistent anchor placement drills. Living in the Detroit suburbs there is no one to cast with. Gary and Adam are on the west side and we get together once a year to play. I love to cast and I love to fish and there can be a separation between the two. Since slowly getting into longer lines my short game has improved a lot.
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post #141 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 08:59 AM
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Uff... I felt guilty... Nice to see the thread back to life again. And I see there are some similarities to Bavarian humor.

I donít have any experience or deeper insights in real competition casting. I only try to give some support with Spey casting trainings in our clubs and in organizing small Speydays as regional events for our clubs. Just for fun and to bring more people into the salmon fishing for the salmon projects and their protection.
The only time my casts were measured objectively (as far as this is the question of this thread) was on a fair where all casters had to use the same gear, simple fishing gear, nothing special. It was a 12í6 rod. As the longest casts for the weekend and after the competition they hit over the 40 m marks SingleSpey and Snake roll casting. Maybe the wind was with me... and nothing in comparison of course to the distances in real competitions. Everything just for fun, nothing seriously at all.
I prefer Scandi shooting heads for its versatility for fishing. All for fishing needs, also nothing for real competitions.
My work on distance, to increase distance over the years, was always Ąmeasured by stripsď. Also not the real thing, as far as this is one of the essences of this thread, but I guess the norm for most Spey fishermen, fishing and testing/training at rivers not at lakes. Runningline management is becoming the biggest problem in distance casting with shooting heads.
To work on the distance limit makes everybody casting better - not only for distance, but also for control, precision and consistency in the Ącomfort zoneď, doubtlessly for fishing too.
Nevertheless to be honest, I have problems to leave the work on the limit while fishing, although I do a lot of test casting with rods and lines, completely without fishing.

I guess itís a difference for the question of this thread, competition casting/training at lakes with objective distance marks or fishermen/casting and training mostly at rivers without objective marks, counting their strips (long arms vs. short arms) or marks on the runningline... written without any ranking in importance.
I for myself still donít know how far for most of the time objectively, but prefer to work on the limit for distance in reality situations with the current and the necessary sweep or any adaption in casting, also depending on riverside, left or right.

As stated, I donít have deeper insights in competition casting, but I am interested in everything casting relevant.
Is it right, the SOR competition is done with 15í rods maximum, so to say regular fishing gear? Is there any ranking in rods and lines?
For all of you casting addicted:
What is your preferred setup for distance casting, both - competition gear and fishing gear?

Time is running... A little bit of work, a little bit married, fishing, hunting... What else?
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post #142 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 11:14 AM
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As stated, I donít have deeper insights in competition casting, but I am interested in everything casting relevant.
Is it right, the SOR competition is done with 15í rods maximum, so to say regular fishing gear? Is there any ranking in rods and lines?
For all of you casting addicted:
What is your preferred setup for distance casting, both - competition gear and fishing gear?
I am curious about some of the same things. I am just a fisherman but do like nice gear. I see a lot of Bruce and Walker / Gaelforce in pics from competitions, but not so much among the people I fish with. SOR is an international group so maybe those brands are just more common overseas, or probably has to do with availability in my area. I buy my rods at my local fly shop (Red Shed) and it does carry Gaelforce; I have jumped in with both feet with their lines, but have yet to try their rods.

I have wondered if Bruce and Walker / Gaelforce are for advanced casters and that is why they are so common at places like SOR, but probably varies by model just like any other brand. I do like 13 to 15' rods for my local waters.
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post #143 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 11:54 AM
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Hey Zack, my biggest fear is practicing bad habits then trying to change them when and if I find a mentor. Right now I can hit 120' 9 out of 10 right and left. At 130' a little less, and at 140' it is a disaster. Any tips on consistent anchor placement drills. Living in the Detroit suburbs there is no one to cast with. Gary and Adam are on the west side and we get together once a year to play. I love to cast and I love to fish and there can be a separation between the two. Since slowly getting into longer lines my short game has improved a lot.
Mark,

Drills? Not anything fancy. I can tell you that both Travis and I spent countless hours working on making our anchors as consistent as possible without making a forward cast. Just setups, then resetting -- Same distance from the body, landing flat, etc.. I, personally, consider that to be everything in the cast and never worry about v-loops or any of that stuff that you see a lot of.

I think most people, when trying for added distance, start doing this faster and harder, and lose sight of that. Clean, consistent anchors will go miles for your fishing casting and not just distance. The competition thing may be very different than fishing in motivations but nothing ever did more for my actual fishing than the practice put in on fundamentals. And it's a lot of fun to improve, I think.
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post #144 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 12:02 PM
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I am curious about some of the same things. I am just a fisherman but do like nice gear. I see a lot of Bruce and Walker / Gaelforce in pics from competitions, but not so much among the people I fish with. SOR is an international group so maybe those brands are just more common overseas, or probably has to do with availability in my area. I buy my rods at my local fly shop (Red Shed) and it does carry Gaelforce; I have jumped in with both feet with their lines, but have yet to try their rods.

I have wondered if Bruce and Walker / Gaelforce are for advanced casters and that is why they are so common at places like SOR, but probably varies by model just like any other brand. I do like 13 to 15' rods for my local waters.

SOR rods were fishing rods 6-8 years ago but they have gotten progressively heavier, where most lines are around 1000 grains. So no, I wouldn't fish with them, but you could. A lot of guys who compete like to fish B&W, Gaelforce, and CND rods because the fishing equipment has a similar action to the competition stuff ... helps you fine tune your casting at all times rather than changing things drastically.
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post #145 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by coug View Post
I am curious about some of the same things. I am just a fisherman but do like nice gear. I see a lot of Bruce and Walker / Gaelforce in pics from competitions, but not so much among the people I fish with. SOR is an international group so maybe those brands are just more common overseas, or probably has to do with availability in my area. I buy my rods at my local fly shop (Red Shed) and it does carry Gaelforce; I have jumped in with both feet with their lines, but have yet to try their rods.

I have wondered if Bruce and Walker / Gaelforce are for advanced casters and that is why they are so common at places like SOR, but probably varies by model just like any other brand. I do like 13 to 15' rods for my local waters.
Hit me up at the clave this fall and you can try my Gaelforce rods but Iím warning you in advance you will be seeing Poppy afterwards
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post #146 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 02:43 PM
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Mark,

Drills? Not anything fancy. I can tell you that both Travis and I spent countless hours working on making our anchors as consistent as possible without making a forward cast. Just setups, then resetting -- Same distance from the body, landing flat, etc.. I, personally, consider that to be everything in the cast and never worry about v-loops or any of that stuff that you see a lot of.
Yeah, the presentation you have given at Poppy's clave is great in that regard.
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post #147 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 07:02 AM
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A weight of 1000 grain is a lot, too much for fishing.
The importance of a proper anchor. Can’t agree more. I was working for years on that part, lift, sweep, anchor. Again, only as a fisherman, to improve casting for fishing (with a bad tendency to forget the fishing).

But isn’t it also the equipment, that plays it’s part in search for perfection?
Rod and line pairing...
What I got into hands from people that do not come further and asked for help in their casting is terrible, to say the least.
I for myself spent weeks, months in testing lines on rods ... (and a lot of money...). After I found the best fit I fine tuned the lines, in length, weight, cutting rear end, middle, front - so to say puzzled together for a perfect match. Not that much necessary anymore these days.
But there is nothing worse for me than a line that is not balanced enough for a straight anchor. And there are still too many out there.
Same for rods.
I came away early from all too tippy rods completely for Spey casting and my fishing. All too tippy rods bend too much and tend to unload too quick after the lift, making a precise controlled anchor more difficult. Not being said impossible when adapting, just more difficult than necessary. The trend in rod manufacturing is going the route to reliable tips and deeper actions now.
The named rods like Gaelforce, CND, B&W are known for strong tips and deeper action.
It’s a lot easier to get good results with thoughts and search for a perfectly balanced setup.
For some years now there are labels that put out fantastic material, with a lot of thoughts in new line technology, tapers, mass distribution and stiffness of coating, also in rod and line pairings.
It’s much easier to come further in technique with the right outfit from the beginning.

As far as there was the discussion for distance casting, I hope not to bring someone into embarrassment to break his secrets when I ask for the preferred setups in rod and line pairings.
May I ask - for the fishing?
Would be nice to share the experiences with competition casters and casting orientated fishermen.

For distance, some Nextcast lines were real game changers for me, also on a couple of older rods. I still have to try some of the Gaelforce lines.

Thank you!

Time is running... A little bit of work, a little bit married, fishing, hunting... What else?

Last edited by Wetwader; 05-31-2019 at 07:57 AM.
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post #148 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 11:02 AM
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A weight of 1000 grain is a lot, too much for fishing.
The importance of a proper anchor. Canít agree more. I was working for years on that part, lift, sweep, anchor. Again, only as a fisherman, to improve casting for fishing (with a bad tendency to forget the fishing).

But isnít it also the equipment, that plays itís part in search for perfection?
Rod and line pairing...
What I got into hands from people that do not come further and asked for help in their casting is terrible, to say the least.
I for myself spent weeks, months in testing lines on rods ... (and a lot of money...). After I found the best fit I fine tuned the lines, in length, weight, cutting rear end, middle, front - so to say puzzled together for a perfect match. Not that much necessary anymore these days.
But there is nothing worse for me than a line that is not balanced enough for a straight anchor. And there are still too many out there.
Same for rods.
I came away early from all too tippy rods completely for Spey casting and my fishing. All too tippy rods bend too much and tend to unload too quick after the lift, making a precise controlled anchor more difficult. Not being said impossible when adapting, just more difficult than necessary. The trend in rod manufacturing is going the route to reliable tips and deeper actions now.
The named rods like Gaelforce, CND, B&W are known for strong tips and deeper action.
Itís a lot easier to get good results with thoughts and search for a perfectly balanced setup.
For some years now there are labels that put out fantastic material, with a lot of thoughts in new line technology, tapers, mass distribution and stiffness of coating, also in rod and line pairings.
Itís much easier to come further in technique with the right outfit from the beginning.

As far as there was the discussion for distance casting, I hope not to bring someone into embarrassment to break his secrets when I ask for the preferred setups in rod and line pairings.
May I ask - for the fishing?
Would be nice to share the experiences with competition casters and casting orientated fishermen.

For distance, some Nextcast lines were real game changers for me, also on a couple of older rods. I still have to try some of the Gaelforce lines.

Thank you!
For fishing my favorite outfit is the 16ft 9wght from Gaelforce with a 83 Gaelforce 9wght line cut into a head
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post #149 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 11:22 AM
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For fishing my favorite outfit is the 16ft 9wght from Gaelforce with a 83 Gaelforce 9wght line cut into a head
15' B&W Powerlite 7/9 and 16' Powerlite 8/9
I like a Gaelforce 73' cut into a head that is about 64' and 800 grains.

and also use a old Nextcast Comp Line of similar weight and length.


I see no reasons for there to be any secrets with tackle, they are inanimate objects after all, it is the caster who makes the cast and the angler who catches the fish, and on the river it is not a competition anyway.
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post #150 of 165 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019, 11:24 AM
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And Wetwader, you are correct. There are a lot of great rods these days, and much fewer shitty ones. The shitty ones that are out there all have soft tips.
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