Casting like my hair's on fire - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Casting like my hair's on fire

Here is a hodgepodge of casts where I'm trying to execute a slower more proper lift, at least some of the time
Happy Easter Everybody!
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 03:55 PM
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Casting like my hair's on fire

Hi SkagitMiester,
That's a nice wee video clip, but... your casting style has very little or nothing to with Scandi style casting, it is turning into more of a traditional style of Speycasting, underhand casting is fine for casting a wee head and lots of running line, you see when you raise your hands the difference in easy distances, keep the hands out in front, this whole keeping your hands in a box and close to you is useless for casting a longer like, i wouldn't even keep my hands close in for a short line cast.
I notice a couple of times you stop really high and only use the bottom hand, but when you cast using both hands it looks smoother and far more relaxed, and a lot less show boating.
Throw the short heads away and get a longer line as it seems you have plenty room to lift and cast a longer line, longer line..... more fishy time, just made that bit up
Gordon.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speyghillie View Post
Hi SkagitMiester,
That's a nice wee video clip, but... your casting style has very little or nothing to with Scandi style casting, it is turning into more of a traditional style of Speycasting, underhand casting is fine for casting a wee head and lots of running line, you see when you raise your hands the difference in easy distances, keep the hands out in front, this whole keeping your hands in a box and close to you is useless for casting a longer like, i wouldn't even keep my hands close in for a short line cast.
I notice a couple of times you stop really high and only use the bottom hand, but when you cast using both hands it looks smoother and far more relaxed, and a lot less show boating.
Throw the short heads away and get a longer line as it seems you have plenty room to lift and cast a longer line, longer line..... more fishy time, just made that bit up
Gordon.
Gordon, you make me weaken with posts like this!

I made the decision to swap to shooting heads a few years ago as I'm not getting any younger & thought that they would offer easier fishing which would place less toll on my body.

They do, but somehow it still feels like cheating!

I like fishing substantial rivers like the Tweed, Spey & Dee, & hate handling loads of running line as the tangles I get when wading deep in fast water (i.e. The "mincing effect" of the downstream vortex in a strong current) drives me nuts. So whilst easier on the body they are less good for my blood pressure & mental state!

For long range work I still like the long rod & long head combination, I can cast it further & have way less grief in the process.

However, for short to medium ranges the Scandi heads are excellent, especially the ability to work the fly for an extended period until the head reaches the rod as it allows me to work the fly in the slacker water & re-cast quickly.

So plenty of room for both approaches - but posts like your's don't help as I can feel my self slipping back & digging out the 16 footers & 80 ft heads.

Just remember I'm not 30-something any more (OK, I'm not 40-something either.....) so when I fall asleep in the bar in the evening, knackered after a day with the big kit, it's your' fault remember!

Regards, Tyke.

PS, isn't the passage of time an absolute swine! T.☹️
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 07:14 PM
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Hi Tim, ... viewed your youtube vid and then hit your web site.

I like how you explain that the lift and the sweep on a single must be 'seamless', 'blended'. How many times have we all read or been erroneously instructed of separate motions 1) LIFT first 2)then follow with SWEEP 3)then UP INTO DLOOP .... etc etc puke, vomit, blah blah

To me the sweep starts at the same time the lift does with the rod tip at the water. The lift is the vertical motion and sweep is the lateral motion and they both start pretty much at the same time. If I try to cast the way everything regarding lift and sweep is almost always erroneously written or instructed then I loose some rod load.

First time I've seen it explained the way it works best. Bravo, Thanks
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 08:49 PM
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Gordon, you make me weaken with posts like

So plenty of room for both approaches - but posts like your's don't help as I can feel my self slipping back & digging out the 16 footers & 80 ft heads.

Just remember I'm not 30-something any more (OK, I'm not 40-something either.....) so when I fall asleep in the bar in the evening, knackered after a day with the big kit, it's your' fault remember!

Regards, Tyke.

PS, isn't the passage of time an absolute swine! T.☹️
I think Tykes whole post nailed it precisely I just like this last part the most. You are a salty dog Tyke and you know the game well!!

Tim your casting looks very good. You've put a lot of time in and it's paid off. Everyone I mean everyone makes the same mistakes in form. What separates us is how often we do. Anyone who thinks differently is full of it. You look pretty relaxed and your loops are tight and you can deliver where you need to. I hope you consider yourself accomplished and take pride in that. You've earned it

As for long heads and short heads they both have a place and anyone who doesn't use a short head as a tool for the appropriate venue is missing out big time. I've been using a switch 375 head from Beulah on my 13'6 7/8 with 6-9ft of Z7 (4.6ips) and it is a joy!

If I switch to a floating poly leader, again an absolute treasure to cast. I can bush wack in tight corners with little room and side arm tight loops 100feet with little effort. It will carry large weighted flies if required. And wind doesn't deter the line like a full long belly.

For those interested I had the gaul to call Beulah up and ask to borrow their new arrow head series which hasn't been released yet. James who is the man over there and an intelligent and prudent individual, was taken aback but after persisting he said he would permit me to borrow the 390 and 420 in a few weeks after the guides return them.

Beulah is a very intelligent company that really thinks outside the box. I like their lines: switch lines for Spey rods, Spey lines for Spey rods, and
mid belly for Spey rods so much I'm buying them all and doubling up on the ones I use the most. When you have a good thing . . . .

Technology in the Spey world has yielded great benefits especially for new anglers. The learning curve was shortened and a heck of a lot easier than it used to be. But there remains finesse and a lot of wisdom about fishing. Which is more than merely casting.

What's interesting is that the traditional methods are just as effective now as they were then but we have more tools in our kit to provide more opportunities to fish water you just would find difficult if you relegate yourself to be an angler who stubbornly fishes one way only. Unless that's all you need of course
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by waynev View Post
Hi Tim, ... viewed your youtube vid and then hit your web site.

I like how you explain that the lift and the sweep on a single must be 'seamless', 'blended'. How many times have we all read or been erroneously instructed of separate motions 1) LIFT first 2)then follow with SWEEP 3)then UP INTO DLOOP .... etc etc puke, vomit, blah blah

To me the sweep starts at the same time the lift does with the rod tip at the water. The lift is the vertical motion and sweep is the lateral motion and they both start pretty much at the same time. If I try to cast the way everything regarding lift and sweep is almost always erroneously written or instructed then I loose some rod load.

First time I've seen it explained the way it works best. Bravo, Thanks
Thank you sir! I'm really happy you enjoyed the brief article and it rang true with you. I appreciate the encouragement~ Thank you!
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks J James for your comments. It's much appreciated. Did I understand you to say that Beulah is coming out with a new Aerohead line? I have the first edition and it is nice. What is the dope on the new line? Have you used it?

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 06:35 AM
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Tim

Same design just some lighter lines available. They are also changing the color unfortunately. It appears some shops made complaints about the red. Which by the way is the least visible color in low light conditions which is why Beulah chose it. It also looks bad ass. But evidently several shops said they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't a more traditional color they could see. I asked for the names of said shops so I called bawl them out but alas my request was refused
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 04:54 PM
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Tim....Very nice video shots which show important parts of the cast. Your body positioning allows analysis of the entire cast and points out a couple of subtle but important aspects of your cast. Notice that your first couple of casts in the series demonstrate that you begin the forward cast by moving your upper hand forward while you pull with your bottom hand. This results in a "see-sawing" of your hands with a resultant somewhat irregular loop formation. On your last two casts you begin the forward cast by moving the entire rod forward butt first and delaying the rotation of the rod until the last part of the cast. This maintains the fulcrum at the upper hand allowing the bottom hand to apply the power at the end of the cast without the "see-sawing" which displaces the important fulcrum point. I notice that this casting stroke is smoother which also shows up in the smoother and stronger loop. This video of you illustrates more clearly this dynamic.

Just a small observation which may be helpful.
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Last edited by gcarlson; 04-18-2017 at 09:33 AM.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gcarlson View Post
Tim....Very nice video shots which show important parts of the cast. Your body positioning allows analysis of the entire cast and points out a couple of subtle but important aspects of your cast. Notice that your first couple of casts in the series demonstrate that you begin the forward cast by moving your upper hand forward while you pull with your bottom hand. This results in a "see-sawing" of your hands with a resultant somewhat irregular loop formation. On your last two casts you begin the forward cast by moving the entire rod forward butt first and delaying the rotation of the rod until the last part of the cast. This maintains the fulcrum at the upper hand allowing the bottom hand to apply the power at the end of the cast without the "see-sawing" which displaces the important fulcrum point. I notice that this casting stroke is smoother which also shows up in the smoother and stronger loop.
Just a small observation which may be helpful.
Hey thanks for the observation. Good stuff and I appreciate it. I will watch the clip again and take note of those casts and get back to you and the others in a more in depth comment but I wanted to say thanks and I'm interested in what others might have to say.
I watched again and noticed those casts that you made mention of. Very astute observation. Thank you for pointing that out.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com

Last edited by SkagitMiester; 04-18-2017 at 12:43 AM. Reason: rewatched video and added to the original comment
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Good stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by speyghillie View Post
Hi SkagitMiester,
That's a nice wee video clip, but... your casting style has very little or nothing to with Scandi style casting, it is turning into more of a traditional style of Speycasting, underhand casting is fine for casting a wee head and lots of running line, you see when you raise your hands the difference in easy distances, keep the hands out in front, this whole keeping your hands in a box and close to you is useless for casting a longer like, i wouldn't even keep my hands close in for a short line cast.
I notice a couple of times you stop really high and only use the bottom hand, but when you cast using both hands it looks smoother and far more relaxed, and a lot less show boating.
Throw the short heads away and get a longer line as it seems you have plenty room to lift and cast a longer line, longer line..... more fishy time, just made that bit up
Gordon.
Thanks Gordon for taking the time to watch and comment on the video. I appreciate it. I do agree with you that many of the casts are traditional Spey casts rather than Scandinavian style and even some of those that are more Scandi style have too little top hand for even good Scandi.
The style I am striving to learn is that of Cloner seen here doing a switch casthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5YWL9TgcHc
What attracted me to his style was the use of bottom hand because in the key position he is perfectly situated to cast Scandinavian heads or longer heads. He uses very little top hand to cast the line except when he stops the rod.

I have yet to come close making a single cast exactly like him but I have become much better at using my bottom hand throughout all phases of the cast but I agree, my best casts are not the casts where I use mostly bottom hand.

Anyway, I still have tons of work to do to improve my casting skills so hopefully we will see some marked improvement over the next few months and I promise a longer line and more fishy time by then.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 02:56 AM
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Nice video Skagitmeister. some really nice casts there. don't you love it when you hit a nice cast, the extra line zips away, and the reel chirps as if begging for more line release. keep these videos coming. they stir up good conversation also. Best, Nate
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks!

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Nice video Skagitmeister. some really nice casts there. don't you love it when you hit a nice cast, the extra line zips away, and the reel chirps as if begging for more line release. keep these videos coming. they stir up good conversation also. Best, Nate
Hey thanks Nate! Yes I love the feel of a good cast I love the chirp of the reel too, especially when I don't here that dang rod noise!!! So happy you enjoy the videos buddy. I'll keep at it. Thanks for the encouragement.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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