Cool Slow Motion Footage - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 12:54 AM Thread Starter
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Cool Slow Motion Footage

Here is some cool slow motion, loop developement footage

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 05:27 AM
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Good footage but there are few bad casts! Slow motion is cruel and the third cast should be used as a good example of Creep which resusts a Tailing Loop. If anyone wants to cure Creep forget the CL/CM and begin pause when D-loop forms but even better is to Drift.

Esa
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 01:08 PM
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no need to forget CL/CM. Done correctly it is a great casting method. Putting in a definite pause has it own problems if not done properly including introducing slack

Really nice sequence - especially liked the one of the close up showing the hands - a very nice compact stroke

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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 02:06 AM
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I think Norman Mclean wrote

... "eventually all things merge into one, and creep runs through it". It sounded compulsive-obsessive though, so he changed it to 'a river', and the rest was history...

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Last edited by yoda1; 04-16-2017 at 06:42 PM. Reason: accuracy
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 08:17 AM
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Really nice sequence - especially liked the one of the close up showing the hands - a very nice compact stroke
The cast towards the end which seemed a very rare cack hand single spey using Falcus lift was good but would have benefit of some Drift. That distance was about the max for that casting stroke length. Obviously he did the first cast as well which had creep and slight tailing loop. Guy with a rust color jacket did cast even too narrow line loops stopping high which can collide even without a tailing loop but perhaps they were "show casts" for the video. Jay did cast using stops and although the D-loop was not shown the stop does not introduce slack!

Esa
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 01:54 PM
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Esa - stop can absolutely introduce slack if not done correctly just like improper CL/CM can cause problems - but both methods if done correctly are two excellent but different ways of casting. And you do not need to drift to cast a very long line but it can help with timing

my issues with some of your posts is you seem to be saying that stopping and drifting are the only good ways to cast and this is simply not true. CL/CM done correctly is a very easy, effective and relaxing way to cast and can be used to cast a long distance

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 02:44 PM
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Correcting Creep

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If anyone wants to cure Creep all that is necessary is to maintain tension in the line.Esa
There, I fixed it for you...

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 03:04 PM
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Rick, when I see a fault I write it because I believe it is good for watchers to understand it! So far I have not seen a cast where Creep is beneficial! You call it CL/CM and I call it Creep and it is a fault in fly line casting because it shortens following casting stroke and increase Tailing Loop. Please see the third cast and you should understand!

Esa
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 03:07 PM
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There, I fixed it for you...
You too Yoda, please watch the third cast and you should understand!

Esa
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 03:43 PM
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Esa - if there is creep in the third cast then the fellow doing the cast is not correctly using the CL/CM method which absolutely can be done without imparting creep into the cast. I bet I could find casts where a stop is imparted the also shows slack occuring.

Regarding drift - it is an effective but not really necessary component in all casting. In sinlge hand overhead casting you can stop dead on the backcast with hand opposite ear and just above shoulder height and shoot an entire fly line - no drift needed

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 03:32 PM
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It's interesting that his cack handed off shoulder casts have a tighter and smoother loop than his casts off of his right side. The stop is higher and there isn't the push of the top hand as seen in the non cack handed cast which appears to create dimpling and a more open loop. I think that this is not uncommon since casting off shoulder creates limitations in hand positioning leading to the higher stop and bottom/upper hand synchrony for maintaining the fulcrum point.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 06:07 PM
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I saw a mention of releasing the cast high, causing a tailing loop. Is a high release wrong way to cast? Can you avoid a tailing loop by having the rod tip path be inside the anchor direction? That is, for a regular roll cast using the railroad track analogy where your rod tip path is following the inside track while your anchor is lined up on the outside track. (parallel to each other).
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-17-2017, 08:54 PM
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a high rod stop in and of itself will not create a tailing loop. The tighter the loop, the more chance of fouling but you can throw a tight loop with rod stopping anywhere.

A tailing loop does not necessarily mean a colliding loop - as you suggest if in separate planes you can have a tailing loop that may not collide.
One reason for tailing loops is changing acceleration during forward cast - any time the acceleration reduces during the process the tip will relax and line will follow - just as a quick pop in power at the start will cause problems - though you should google Lefty's description of what causes tailing loops - pretty interesting
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 10:02 AM
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I think a very high stop can cause the tailing loop whem rod straightens and if rod tip rise above the following line path! It is quite common when single hand casting and haul is finished too early before rod has straightened and rod tip rise and sends a wave to the line.

However too abrupt power input during the line acceleration is much more common reason for the TL both when SH and DH casting when sudden rod bend shortens the rod span and line path dips and it is what happens on a third cast on that first post link video.

Stopping hard when DH casting is often waste of effort. High stop narrows the line loop but also slows down line loop velocity. Stopping can also stress body so accelerating until line loop begins to form is efficient and easy way to cast fishing casts. Also when DH casting the line loop begins to form surprisingly early and hard stopping after that has very little effect when cast is lengthened using line shooting. When a line, especially long line, is cast without shooting the forward stop can have positive effects to accuracy and line straightening.

When line is shoot using overhang it is possible to lessen the line loop widening and overhang also allows more rod straightening energy accelerate line forward when line mass comes farther behind and rod tip path downwards can not pull line down too much.

Esa
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebe View Post
I saw a mention of releasing the cast high, causing a tailing loop. Is a high release wrong way to cast? Can you avoid a tailing loop by having the rod tip path be inside the anchor direction? That is, for a regular roll cast using the railroad track analogy where your rod tip path is following the inside track while your anchor is lined up on the outside track. (parallel to each other).
It's an absolute rule in casting that the line will follow the rod tip path during a cast. This is why we strive to obtain a "straight rod tip path" to present a straight fly line. To create this "straight rod tip path" depends on several factors. This includes a proper tempo in applying power to the rotation of the rod during the cast to eliminate slack (slack=curved line), thereby creating a straight line. This is easier said than done since we are rotating the rod and the rod bends as we rotate, especially the more limber tip. If excessive power is applied during the rotation the rod tip will bend excessively dipping below the straight line in a concave direction which is called a "tailing loop". Since the line will always follow the tip it will cross under the opposite segment of the loop allowing it to tangle and form the dreaded "wind knot."

The comment above about "creep" causing a tailing loop is true since moving the rod tip forward before applying power shortens the casting stroke length and means that excessive power is applied to compensate for the shorter stroke and there's your "tailing loop."

Simple words for a more complex dynamic. So try to create a smooth progressive power application to your casting stroke and all will be good.
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