Some great casting advice and instruction - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Some great casting advice and instruction

Featuring Yours Truly and Tom Larimer, just by coincidence. I made my video yesterday and immediately afterwards I ran across four brand new Airflo videos on the linespeedjedi secret hotline also known as youtube, one featuring Tim Rajeff and the other three featuring Tom with some advice for shorter lines. Iteresting that a major part of the videos was about using the bottom hand. I do the same only I am trying out the Beulah Aerohead Spey line. These videos are all hot off the press.
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 01:05 PM
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In a class with Lee Davison last year, the body rotation and bottom hand push were taught in the opposite sequence- rotate first, then push with the bottom hand- so slow lift, rotate, bottom hand push.

The idea (as I understand it), is the rotation and easing weight from front to back, gets the line moving and on the right trajectory, then the bottom had push makes the change of direction to align your anchor 180 to your target.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 02:41 PM
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Yes first rotate body and then drift. That can be concidered as the end "flip" of the back cast too. Drift is not so obvious when Underhand or Scandi casting short distance. I don't know who name all possible moves but drift is used when casting technique is truly discussed

Esa
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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My video

Thanks guys.
I tried to share in my video the things that have worked for me personally. Janusz Panics has helped me as well as others and I've practiced the techniques enough to begin to understand how they work a little bit so I threw those ideas out there because they have been very helpful in improving my casting. I did try to stress that it was what had worked for me, especially in the blog post because I know there is more than one way to skin a cat and there are good casters who have their own way of doing things.

I did discover that the techniques Januzs helped me with also worked particularly well when used with the longer lines. So that was cool. I was excited about sharing that.
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 06:48 AM
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You have succeed because your line lands to the anchor very consistently! There is no wrong way to cast if it works but it looks like some principles are better than others.

When Underhand casting is teached step by step there are four definite steps: Initial line lift, body turn, bottom hand push and bottom hand pull which all are separate moves and it makes learning easier. When Underhand casting only the bottom hand push begins immediately when body turn stops and when caster advances they usually begin to lap each other.

Bottom hand push is essential to be able to pull in forward cast and it can have two roles which the beginning of the line loop forming separates. Bottom hand push can and when line is longer should accelerate line to D-loop as well and and when D-loop has began to form it turns to a Drift. When bottom hand push is used to accelerate line also the top hand needs to be lifted to direct D-loop up to make forming anchor light but then casting has already advanced to Scandi

Esa
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 08:55 AM
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Casting advice

Hi SkagitMiester,
Been looking at your video and the underhand casting videos posted, i think you will see you are casting is transforming into a traditional casting style, if there is such a thing and that is helping you cast further, lets be honest and say no one in the distance casting world uses an underhand style.
You will see in your video that your hands before the forward cast and raised to allow for drift with a longer line, look at Goran's videos and try and use what the video describes as the best two handed casting style in the world, that i know not to be true, one little thing to try if you are not convinced, grab a mid belly or longer and try and cast it underhand as Goran does in his video keeping the bottom hand next to your body.
If you keep both hands out in front of your body you will cast further with less effort and use both hands to flex the rod, part of the reason the top cork is not just a handle like on a coffee cup.
Thanks Gordon.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 10:45 AM
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Is it absolutely necessary to rotate the body or is only helpful to do so???
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 01:41 PM
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I think it comes necessary when casting direction is turned more but is helpful already on Switch cast / Forward Spey cast.

Esa
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fish0n4evr View Post
Is it absolutely necessary to rotate the body or is only helpful to do so???
For me personally it is absolutely necessary to rotate my body. Its huge. The more I focus on staying disciplined with body rotation during my casting sessions the more consistent my casting becomes.
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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I think it comes necessary when casting direction is turned more but is helpful already on Switch cast / Forward Spey cast.

Esa
I agree Esa. If you watch this video of Cloner doing a switch cast you can see his body rotation. Thats just a switch cast, as you say, even moreso with change of direction.

Notice how strict Travis is with his body rotation. He keeps his arms still during the sweep. Learning this provided me my biggest breakthrough in my single spey cast. http://www.tubechop.com/watch/8893247
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by fish0n4evr View Post
Is it absolutely necessary to rotate the body or is only helpful to do so???
This is just my own idiosyncratic take on the physics of the SS, but especially for bigger angles, 50-90 degrees, the anchor will just not straighten out all the way before it lands if you don't put the curve into the line early and then accelerate smooth but hard with the pull back and lift - I mean the tip but if you want to call it a push of the butt same thing. I suppose you could technically move the tip in the right shape using your arms in the beginning, but then you will run out of runway by the time you get to the pull back and usually not be able to accelerate in such a way that the line pulls smoothly around the curve. At any rate, my arms are just not long enough to make it work without rotating right at the start.

This is for longer lines. With shorter ones I find I can more or less fake it and just power through any slack or kinks created if they are not too bad. Unfortunately it seem like a high percentage of SS "educational" videos on YouTube are in fact for switch casts, or very small change of angle - a very different animal altogether.

Edit: on the Larimer vid, I pretty much do my snap t/circle speys like he does there. I guess it started when casting a 15' rod for the first time. I am such a hobbit that crossing over was a real mess. But I have evolved over time to doing it that way even (most of the time) with a trout weight switch rod. It just feels like I have more control, and not only when the rod grip is particularly wide.
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Last edited by Botsari; 02-16-2017 at 01:11 AM.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 08:22 PM
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Im pretty much in-line with what Esa is laying down: I believe that rotation is proportional to the direction: Modern switch cast -versus- single spey out to 45˚ -versus- further out towards 90˚. The sequence though... push [the lower cork] and turning the shoulders/torso are done at the same time. Simultaneous. Breaking it down to teach or to explain is fine but it ought to be drilled as actually being done simultaneously.

Your thoughts...
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-17-2017, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fish0n4evr View Post
Im pretty much in-line with what Esa is laying down: I believe that rotation is proportional to the direction: Modern switch cast -versus- single spey out to 45˚ -versus- further out towards 90˚. The sequence though... push [the lower cork] and turning the shoulders/torso are done at the same time. Simultaneous. Breaking it down to teach or to explain is fine but it ought to be drilled as actually being done simultaneously.

Your thoughts...
Yes I think you are correct Vic. I like to push out with my bottom hand early though so my arm is mostly extended throughout the sweep and my arms are almost locked, but I think simultaneous is generally accepted as correct. If I let my body do most of the work in the sweep, my anchors and V loops are more consistent.

Here is a link to Lee Davisons video about using the bottom hand, on his facebook channel. He is an excellent instructor and a Speyorama Senior Mens Champion. This tutorial is excellent. There is more than one way to skin a cat for sure. https://www.facebook.com/LeeSpey/vid...1/?pnref=story
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 11:44 AM
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Yes I think you are correct Vic. I like to push out with my bottom hand early though so my arm is mostly extended throughout the sweep and my arms are almost locked, but I think simultaneous is generally accepted as correct. If I let my body do most of the work in the sweep, my anchors and V loops are more consistent.

Here is a link to Lee Davisons video about using the bottom hand, on his facebook channel. He is an excellent instructor and a Speyorama Senior Mens Champion. This tutorial is excellent. There is more than one way to skin a cat for sure. https://www.facebook.com/LeeSpey/vid...1/?pnref=story
No doubt the use of bottom hand is important. Forcing myself to use non-dominant hand up really drove the point home the same way that casting across the torso might have to others by limit their range of motion of the dominant arm.

My preferred skinning method is to reach out with the rod, arms extended and bending at the waist towards the dangle to initiate the lift. So my elbow isn't locked in at the ribs until further in the cast. The line peels off the water and Im pulling line with both hands. There is a pivoting of the rod at the upper hand( I believe so ) like Lee Davison talks about, but Im also pulling using both hands. Definitely. Transferring weight from one leg to the other along with rotation (The Spey-Waltz) is all very helpful too particularly when casting extended-bellies so long as one doesn't give-in too much into a current and is washed away...

Last edited by fish0n4evr; 02-18-2017 at 03:27 PM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-18-2017, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Both hands

Quote:
Originally Posted by speyghillie View Post
Hi SkagitMiester,
Been looking at your video and the underhand casting videos posted, i think you will see you are casting is transforming into a traditional casting style, if there is such a thing and that is helping you cast further, lets be honest and say no one in the distance casting world uses an underhand style.
You will see in your video that your hands before the forward cast and raised to allow for drift with a longer line, look at Goran's videos and try and use what the video describes as the best two handed casting style in the world, that i know not to be true, one little thing to try if you are not convinced, grab a mid belly or longer and try and cast it underhand as Goran does in his video keeping the bottom hand next to your body.
If you keep both hands out in front of your body you will cast further with less effort and use both hands to flex the rod, part of the reason the top cork is not just a handle like on a coffee cup.
Thanks Gordon.
DTX Pro Staff.
Thank you SpeyGhillie for watching the videos. Thanks very much for the critique of my casting too. It's much appreciated I agree with you on all counts. I am revamping my technique to use more bottom hand after years of not using enough. It has been helpful to use primarily bottom hand with the shorter lines to help re groove my stroke but when the longer lines come out, particularly with distance casting techniques, I use more top hand. Here is a good article by Travis Johnson called The other hand in two handed casting. He is in agreement with your assertion that both hands are needed to flex the rod.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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