Advanced Single hand, underhand, spey casting demonstration - Spey Pages
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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Advanced Single hand, underhand, spey casting demonstration

More awesome stuff from Klaus Frimor

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 01:45 AM
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HOLY S**T!! Thanks for sharing. Literally unbelievable.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 04:01 AM
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It's nothing new neither spectacular IMHO. Klaus Frimor is the disciple of Göran Andersson, the father of this style of casting.
The old times
https://youtu.be/LUrujaJ0F34

Recent footage:
https://youtu.be/2wqeEa0zk1M

Bear in mind that underhand casting is done with shorter shooting head than regular Scaninavian head and with longer leader.


PS.
SkagitMiester, I've subscribed to your YouTube channel and having watched a few of the latest videos of you learning the Scandinavian casting there is one common issue with all your casts. Assuming you use Scandinavian shooing head you constantly neglect the importance of the lift. Without the proper lift you pull thru the sweep with your upper hand while you should do the following: proper lift, sweep by pushing your lower hand away, rotate, drift and forward cast. You should keep your upper hand and elbow in front of you through the entire cast. One good advice Klaus Frimor gives you should follow - "keep your rod tip high" - you should definitely lift and keep your rod tip higher than you do on those YouTube clips.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 01:49 PM
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OK, but 'new' is relative and spectacular rests within the eye of the beholder… in this case, me. I can't do that. Goran Andersson deserves all the credit he is due. Claus demonstrated that he is no slouch either.
I'll check out the other clips and be equally amazed, I'm sure.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 04:52 AM
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He really is good!!
Those curve casts will have me reviewing and practicing.
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May the fish make you smile!
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Agreed!

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Originally Posted by tackleman View Post
He really is good!!
Those curve casts will have me reviewing and practicing.
Yes, Let us know your discoveries. That is something I would like to play with too.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloner View Post
It's nothing new neither spectacular IMHO. Klaus Frimor is the disciple of Göran Andersson, the father of this style of casting.
The old times
https://youtu.be/LUrujaJ0F34

Recent footage:
https://youtu.be/2wqeEa0zk1M

Bear in mind that underhand casting is done with shorter shooting head than regular Scaninavian head and with longer leader.


PS.
SkagitMiester, I've subscribed to your YouTube channel and having watched a few of the latest videos of you learning the Scandinavian casting there is one common issue with all your casts. Assuming you use Scandinavian shooing head you constantly neglect the importance of the lift. Without the proper lift you pull thru the sweep with your upper hand while you should do the following: proper lift, sweep by pushing your lower hand away, rotate, drift and forward cast. You should keep your upper hand and elbow in front of you through the entire cast. One good advice Klaus Frimor gives you should follow - "keep your rod tip high" - you should definitely lift and keep your rod tip higher than you do on those YouTube clips.
Thanks Cloner very much for weighing in and for subscribing to my you tube channel. Your comments are extremely valuable and I appreciate that!

I totally agree about my lift and sweep. I have studied the videos on the Nextcast Products Facebook page showing the casts of Greg B and Brian Choe casting short heads.That got me pondering my own wild ass lift and sweep- mistakenly trying to keep my V loop flat by sweeping with the rod tip low and rod too parallel to the water.

So, if you check my latest videos, downloaded last night, I think you will see an improvement, at least in the lift.

I play hell trying to keep my hand in front of me during the sweep and making a D loop! To make a bigger deep loop I seem to need to get my upper arm to far to the side. When I keep my hand in front of me, I go up too soon and get a shallow D loop. You can see it on this video. Thanks for the help man!
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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lifting styles

Here is a link to some videos from the Nextcast Products facebook page I shared on my page of Brian and Greg casting short heads. Notice the lift.
Just a cool example- not sure what style you might call it but its highly functional which is a primary goal!

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkagitMiester View Post
I totally agree about my lift and sweep. I have studied the videos on the Nextcast Products Facebook page showing the casts of Greg B and Brian Choe casting short heads.That got me pondering my own wild ass lift and sweep- mistakenly trying to keep my V loop flat by sweeping with the rod tip low and rod too parallel to the water.

So, if you check my latest videos, downloaded last night, I think you will see an improvement, at least in the lift.

I play hell trying to keep my hand in front of me during the sweep and making a D loop! To make a bigger deep loop I seem to need to get my upper arm to far to the side. When I keep my hand in front of me, I go up too soon and get a shallow D loop. You can see it on this video. Thanks for the help man!
Making a higher lift alone is not enough. I deliberately mentioned "proper lift". This may sound like Master Yoda talking but you have to feel it I mean when you lift (which you should execute slowly) you should feel the very moment when your shooting head becomes airborne and then you push your lower hand away and to the side. If you are too early with the push you will have to use your upper hand to pull the head out of the water and that's game over by underhand style standards. If you make the push with the lower hand at the right moment and the shooting head becomes airborne then by rotating you can change the angle by as much as your hips and spine will allow you. If I need to I can change the angle of my cast with a single spey (within a single cast) by almost 180 degrees. I've got some clips uploaded on YT to better demonstrate the above and that I think you could find helpful but I'm talking my mother tongue there

Second thing and also very important is your stance. You should put your right foot in front and left foot back and your pelvis should be at 45 degree angle toward the direction of the cast. This will help you keep your upper hand in front of you (in that case your right hand) and will make room for pulling your lower hand during the forward cast.

What length is your shooting head/leader/tippet?
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-07-2016, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloner View Post
Making a higher lift alone is not enough. I deliberately mentioned "proper lift". This may sound like Master Yoda talking but you have to feel it I mean when you lift (which you should execute slowly) you should feel the very moment when your shooting head becomes airborne and then you push your lower hand away and to the side. If you are too early with the push you will have to use your upper hand to pull the head out of the water and that's game over by underhand style standards. If you make the push with the lower hand at the right moment and the shooting head becomes airborne then by rotating you can change the angle by as much as your hips and spine will allow you. If I need to I can change the angle of my cast with a single spey (within a single cast) by almost 180 degrees. I've got some clips uploaded on YT to better demonstrate the above and that I think you could find helpful but I'm talking my mother tongue there

Second thing and also very important is your stance. You should put your right foot in front and left foot back and your pelvis should be at 45 degree angle toward the direction of the cast. This will help you keep your upper hand in front of you (in that case your right hand) and will make room for pulling your lower hand during the forward cast.

What length is your shooting head/leader/tippet?
Thanks Cloner that gives me plenty to chew on. I will look for your Youtube channel- can you supply a link?


In my most recent video I'm using a Rio Scandi Short body of 23' and a 15' floating tip with an approximately 10' straight mono leader and a 14' rod.

... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkagitMiester View Post
Thanks Cloner that gives me plenty to chew on. I will look for your Youtube channel- can you supply a link?

In my most recent video I'm using a Rio Scandi Short body of 23' and a 15' floating tip with an approximately 10' straight mono leader and a 14' rod.
RIO Sandi Body coupled with 15ft tip is a perfect combo. To improve the loop formation during the forward cast and its turnover I'd suggest that you use lighter tip that your Scandi Body is (for a 14' #9 rod that would be Scandi Body #9 and 15' tip #8). RIO originally designed this head as Scandi Short meant for use with 10' tip. Weight of 15' #8 tip is roughly the same as 10' #9 tip. Furthermore, try attaching a tapered leader instead of a mono leader. I usually use 3M or Airflo tapered leaders 9' at 0.43 diameter + 2 feet of mono in front. I would also switch from floating tip to intermediate tip to make your casting more technical (by making it a bit more difficult ).

Having watched your latest clip on YouTube makes me smile. As it always makes me smile when I see a caster retrieving his shooting line with his rod tip pointing up (some big names in the business do it as well). First of all it's ineffective, as you waste your energy every time your rod tip bends when you pull the line. Over the week of fishing and over some 4K casts you make during that time this makes a difference. Secondly and more importantly, when you keep your rod tip pointing up while retrieving it atomically gives you slack when you are done. You should start each cast with your rod tip pointing toward the water or at least parallel to water surface and have some tension in your line. Having tension gives you control.

PS.
I'm planning to record some footage with English commentary by the end of this week.
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Last edited by Cloner; 08-08-2016 at 04:00 PM.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloner View Post
I mean when you lift (which you should execute slowly) you should feel the very moment when your shooting head becomes airborne and then you push your lower hand away and to the side. If you are too early with the push you will have to use your upper hand to pull the head out of the water and that's game over by underhand style standards. If you make the push with the lower hand at the right moment and the shooting head becomes airborne then by rotating you can change the angle by as much as your hips and spine will allow you.

Second thing and also very important is your stance. You should put your right foot in front and left foot back and your pelvis should be at 45 degree angle toward the direction of the cast. This will help you keep your upper hand in front of you (in that case your right hand) and will make room for pulling your lower hand during the forward cast.

What length is your shooting head/leader/tippet?
The first paragraph of this quote is gospel and helped me immensely. Anyone learning along with me would do well to chew on it a while and practice this. Its not as difficult as it sounds once your on the water-

Also, Bruce mentioned by way of pm that I was still moving my arms too much and body not enough- this is key.

Cloner- good catch on my floating tip- I replaced with a much daintier one- great results.
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... the pseudo-science of running-lines and matching heads has now devolved into such a miasma of obfuscation that it is a wonder that people are even not more confused....Erik Helm

www.linespeedjedi.com
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 01:07 PM
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While amazing some of those casts from then op vid might get you a wedgie on the river if there are some other fly fishermen around.
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